15:12:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
15:12:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-pbgsc-irc
15:12:51 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:12:51 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
15:12:51 <ivan> Chair: RickJ
15:12:51 <ivan> Date: 2017-10-03
15:12:51 <ivan> Regrets+ pbelfanti, luc, liisa, mike, cristina
15:12:52 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/CB497773-0632-47F5-BF4C-8C6C8863E612@ingramcontent.com
15:12:52 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2017-10-03: http://www.w3.org/mid/CB497773-0632-47F5-BF4C-8C6C8863E612@ingramcontent.com
15:47:12 <RickJ> RickJ has joined #pbgsc
15:58:09 <RickJ> right now, I'm alone on the webex
15:59:44 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:00:06 <RickJ> present+ Rick
16:00:22 <ivan> present+
16:00:34 <ivan> present+ Luc
16:00:40 <ivan> present= graham
16:00:41 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbgsc
16:00:49 <laudrain> present+ Luc
16:01:06 <ivan> present dauwhe, luc, graham, rickj
16:01:30 <graham> graham has joined #pbgsc
16:02:22 <ivan> present+ leslie, billm
16:02:30 <BillM> BillM has joined #pbgsc
16:03:45 <BillM> Daihei Shiohama is assisting Junichi Yoshii of Kodansha
16:03:51 <ivan> present+ bill_kasdorf
16:03:59 <BillM> he is also managing director of Media DO (TPI member)
16:04:01 <laudrain> Waves back to Dave
16:04:06 <ivan> present+ Daihei_Shiohama
16:04:34 <ivan> present+ garth
16:04:41 <graham> Graham to scribe
16:04:48 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
16:04:53 <laudrain> Ivan, I don’t hear you well…
16:04:55 <graham> Rick opened meeting and listed apologies
16:05:04 <ivan> scribenick: graham
16:05:15 <graham> Rick noted agenda had been distributed and asked if any additions. No.
16:05:16 <garth> Present+ Garth
16:05:37 <garth> (I muted)
16:05:48 <ivan> topic: meeting dates and frequency
16:05:56 <graham> Item 1 - Meeting cadence and next meeting date
16:06:29 <graham> previous meeting had talked about reducing frequency to monthly. Rick asks for further comments
16:06:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
16:07:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:07:07 <laudrain> Once a month is ok for me
16:07:10 <ivan> q+
16:07:19 <graham> ~B O'Leary had commented that monthly seems comfortable, but means that you must make an effort never to miss, as this creates too long a gap
16:08:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:08:23 <ivan> ack ivan
16:08:36 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:08:42 <graham> Ivan is 'lukewarm' about monthly, as the group has almost exclusively talked about ISO standardisation. A single topic like that may not justify even monthly meetings
16:09:21 <graham> Bill K notes that real activity happens in task forces / working groups, and that the parent group may meet less frequently
16:09:35 <tzviya> present+
16:10:06 <graham> Rick asks Bill K what he sees as the relationship between Business SC and the Business Group itself?
16:10:13 <garth> I do tending to think the SC should have that oversight role.
16:10:26 <garth> s/tending/tend/
16:11:07 <ivan> q+
16:11:35 <graham> Bill K not sure on SC - Group relation. He notes that not all BISG committees (per Brian OLeary comment above) meet strictly monthly. Some meet less frequently. Others have concrete tasks (e.g. Subject committee) and do meet monthly
16:11:49 <tzviya> q+
16:12:01 <graham> Bill K sees virtue in breadth of membership of the business group.
16:12:23 <graham> (but question remains – how often should the business group meet?
16:12:45 <graham> (and presumably, how often should the business group SC meet too?)
16:13:02 <garth> With the possible exception of Epubcheck, is the CG “very active?”
16:14:02 <graham> Ivan notes we have a list of topics that the SC feels should be addressed by the Business group. There are specific topics, and a few goals.
16:14:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> thanks for the correction dauwhe re the CG
16:14:30 <ivan> present+ George
16:14:50 <laudrain> yes I do
16:15:00 <graham> Ivan suggests we encourage the Business group to get task forces set up to progress the various tasks / goals listed
16:15:40 <graham> Ivan - and once they are working, the BG might not need to meet quite so frequently
16:16:15 <graham> Tzviya - a large part of the membership of the business group are not familiar with the aims of the BG, or not comfortable with the W3C process / with IRC / with ...
16:16:23 <dauwhe> q+
16:16:30 <ivan> ack ivan
16:16:33 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:16:33 <graham> and we might need to be more active in welcoming and educating new BG participants
16:16:39 <ivan> ack dauwhe
16:17:22 <graham> Dave - agrees with Tzviya, the BG participants are not all familiar with the mission and the method
16:17:27 <garth> +1
16:18:03 <tzviya> +1
16:18:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> sounds good to me
16:18:37 <laudrain> +1
16:18:40 <graham> Rick - summarises Ivan's proposal - presenting the list of tasks to the BG, see which have enthusiasts to progress them, and get them going, then...
16:18:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:19:01 <graham> reduce the frequency of the BG meetings
16:19:24 <graham> Rick notes there should be SC members enthusiastic for each of the tasks too
16:20:13 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbgsc
16:20:20 <graham> Bill K clarifies that while the BG must have enthusiasts to carry work forward, not all work need be done solely by members of the BG - it might be devolved to outside organisations or to other parts of the W3C
16:21:26 <graham> Bill K - for example BG members are not going to solve issues with MathML, but might help focus attention on particular problems with MathML and provide impetus for solutions to be developed by otherss
16:21:46 <graham> George - the marketing group didn't 'take' well in IDPF either
16:21:59 <BillM> q+
16:22:11 <RickJ> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:22:38 <graham> George - must be careful when handing off to (for example) BISG or another group. Must not simply say 'join BISG and get the work done there'
16:22:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 re BISG is North Am and book focus--we forget that
16:23:15 <graham> Bill M notes BISG is overtly a North American org, and W3C must not be exclusively North American. it must tackle problems of a global natgure
16:23:18 <laudrain> +1 for global
16:24:05 <graham> Rick - can we identify at least on person on the SC to be the champion for each of the issues and tasks identified
16:24:28 <graham> Rick - 1 creating best practices. Bill K has been vocal in the past on this topic
16:24:57 <laudrain> q+
16:26:15 <laudrain> we had many regrets for today
16:26:22 <graham> Bill K - in the absence of other volunteers, though these things (best practices) are often progressed via BISG. But BISG is (as well as being North American) is also purely book-focused
16:26:39 <graham> Rick and Bill K note that Rachel might well be a good person to progress this
16:26:44 <garth> I think the best practices done by BISG for Fixed Layout worked out pretty well (and wasn’t really US focused).
16:27:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:27:19 <tzviya> q+
16:27:26 <graham> George notes DAISY has a knowledgebase of 'how to' answers. It may be possible to extend this
16:27:56 <garth> We need to need create only best practices content for which there is really an audience.  We have had examples of getting all dressed up for no party.
16:28:07 <garth> q?
16:28:17 <graham> +1 to Garth's comment
16:28:24 <laudrain> +1
16:28:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:28:53 <BillM> ack BillM
16:28:55 <garth> ack BillM
16:29:05 <graham> Rick 2 - taking the pulse of EPUB across the marketplace. What are people doing with EPUB and how are they integrating it into their publishing plans
16:29:21 <garth> ack laudrain
16:29:23 <ivan> ack luc
16:30:11 <graham> Luc - is keen to champion ISO issues and accessibility in the BG
16:30:19 <garth> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:30:49 <garth> ack tzviya
16:30:54 <graham> Bill K - best practice for what? is a key question
16:31:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Tzviya's suggestion
16:32:09 <graham> Tzviya - had in mind building an online place to collate all material but to arrange it by topic (and keen not to reinvent best practices that already exist, so would link out to other W3C resources)
16:32:50 <graham> Ivan - (notes that some W3C best Practices are somewhat questionable)
16:33:22 <graham> Rick - proposes collating all this in a Google Doc so that SC members can identify tasks that they want to champion
16:33:42 <graham> Next agenda point
16:34:00 <graham> Rick - recommendations from George on how to progress wit ISO
16:34:24 <graham> George - the subgroup has recommended the approach that is the most work
16:35:30 <graham> Rick summarises - vote agains 3.0.1 as a TS, vote for 3.0.1 as an IS
16:35:48 <graham> start process for EPUB Accessibility to become an IS
16:35:57 <graham> and start process for 3.1 to become an IS
16:36:01 <graham> (in that order)
16:36:02 <ivan> q+
16:36:47 <graham> George - there is a significant amount of work to get the specs into ISO language, which should be carried out by the Community Group
16:37:03 <ivan> q-
16:37:13 <graham> George - and Matt Garrish (?) would be able to help with that
16:38:00 <tzviya> q+ to remind everyone of the changes we had to make to EPUB 3 for ISO
16:38:21 <graham> Ivan - previous experience with ISO standards suggest that publication rules and requirements are stringent. Not sure that time and energy to do that will be available
16:38:29 <graham> Can we clone Matt?
16:39:07 <ivan> q?
16:40:03 <graham> George - asks Bill M how SC34 standardised 3.0 as a TS. Would it be possible to put 3.0.1 forward as an IS *without* significant work because it is already a Korean national standard?
16:41:01 <tzviya> q-
16:41:11 <graham> Tzviya - standardising 3.0 as a TS required resolving hundreds of issues
16:41:33 <graham> Bill M - most of those issues are no longer present in 3.0.1
16:42:20 <graham> George - 3.0.1 will be moved forward as an IS (and will be fast tracked because it is a Korean national standard)
16:42:44 <graham> Bill M - but this doesn't solve the question of 3.1
16:42:46 <garth> q?
16:43:37 <graham> George - can we then kick off the 3.1 IS process when Matt has some free time
16:43:54 <ivan> q+
16:44:01 <garth> Isn’t Japan pretty firmly against proceeding with 3.1?  I still think it’s not insane to redefine the version of 3.1 to be “3.0”, to perhaps make the Japan folks happier.
16:45:13 <ivan> ack ivan
16:45:18 <garth> q+
16:45:46 <graham> Graham - need to outline the process publicly up front (so as not to hide the 3.1 process from view)
16:46:30 <graham> Ivan - cautions against putting too much pressure on Matt. Need to recruit alternatives, as it is unlikely he will EVER have time
16:48:20 <graham> Garth - (as above) Japan seems to be against 3.1, should consider the version string in 3.1 to "3.0" which would (it seems) negate most of Makoto's issues
16:48:33 <laudrain> I support this idea
16:48:47 <graham> Rick / George - so what is our next step?
16:48:56 <laudrain> It would solve epubdhceck issue too ?
16:49:07 <garth> It would help
16:49:58 <laudrain> s/epubhceck/epubcheck/
16:50:32 <graham> Rick - is there a clear recommendation from the SC
16:51:24 <graham> Graham - moving on all three seems the best way
16:52:11 <graham> Tzviya - modifying the version string in 3.1 in order to allow the Japanese to support 3.1 might be a good way forward
16:52:52 <graham> Tzviya - particularly as when the "3.1" version string was chosen, 3.1 was envisioned as a much 'larger' update
16:53:07 <BillM> q+
16:53:14 <garth> ack garth
16:53:23 <garth> ack BillM
16:53:40 <graham> Rick - suggests the Sc should recommend that we move forward with 3.0.1 standardisations, and that the 3.1 standardisation wait until until we have discussed the version string issue
16:54:24 <graham> Bill M - preferred that this should be passed through W3M first, and that ISO communication happens through that management group
16:54:48 <BillM> ACTION: BillM to get W3M approval and move forward to notify ISO that we agree to move forward with 3.0.1 update, potentially omving from TS to IS at the same time
16:55:05 <graham> George - (garbled) possibly relating to NISO group... needs to be moved quickly
16:55:11 <graham> Next item
16:55:14 <ivan> q+
16:55:25 <graham> Rick - MiniSMIL
16:55:38 <graham> Ivan - do not call it MiniSMIL...
16:55:43 <garth> “mini-SMIL” == “grin"
16:55:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> media overlays?
16:56:01 <garth> Yep, +1, to Media Overlay, and “grin” informally.
16:56:17 <tzviya> Mo for short
16:56:22 <laudrain> +1
16:56:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:56:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:56:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan
16:57:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> I will be unavailable next week because of Frankfurt
16:57:25 <laudrain> I’ll be in Frankfurt too
16:58:01 <graham> Rick - we will have a BG meeting next week, with aim of guiding the formation of small working groups
16:58:19 <graham> various - not next week because Frankfurt
16:58:30 <graham> Rick - next BG meeting 17th Oct
16:59:02 <graham> Rick - will consult co-chairs and confirm the
16:59:09 <graham> date
16:59:17 <graham> Meeting ends
16:59:18 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:59:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan