See also: IRC log
<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html
<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html
<JohnRochford> Can't get into WebEx or join by phone.
<scribe> scribe: erich
<scribe> new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869
<JohnRochford> ok
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-lvtf-info.html
<shawn> s/ new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869 /
JA: need to start getting our understanding documents together, so let the group know if anyone needs help
<allanj> Summary of issues from Tuesday AG meeting
<allanj> 1. popup, popover, custom tooltip - NOT tooltip or menu
<allanj> 2. tag name change - reduce popup interference (16 yes, 5 no)
<allanj> 3. scope - title attribute (yes/no), is anything else left out?
<allanj> 4. megamenu??
<allanj> Things for Understanding doc
<allanj> if you have to click it, it is not a popup
<allanj> button changing color is not a popup.
<allanj> this SC is intended for authors creating 'non-persistant information' on the screen so they don't interfer with other information
<allanj> Gower - would be nice if the Understanding docs also dissuaded the use of popups in general given the lack of usability for touchscreen users. (from comments on github)
<allanj> @title has support issues - Using the HTML title attribute
<allanj> other issues
<allanj> Seems folks want @title=tooltip covered. Including tooltip would eliminate the need for for the exception at the start.
<allanj> Tho there will be pushback - see https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270134757
<allanj> see @title on forms - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270964479
<allanj> discussion of to include or exclude tooltip
<allanj> if we include tooltip, then telling authors to not use @title
<allanj> sr: did not get adding tooltip from AG discussion
<allanj> sr: change popup to something else, change interference to visability
SM: must be a concrete reason why term "popup" not accepted
<allanj> sr: no consistent term for popup
<allanj> hover box, hover card
<allanj> current SC
sh: is term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0?
<allanj> Except where the visual presentation of a popup is controlled by the user agent and is not modified by the author, all of the following are true when a popup is visible:
<allanj> Trigger
<allanj> The Popup does not obscure any part of its trigger.
<allanj> Hover
<allanj> If the popup is triggered via pointer hover, then the pointer may be moved onto the popup without loss of popup visibility.
<allanj> Focus
<allanj> The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any of its components have focus, unless the user takes an explicit action to close the popup.
sr: don't believe so (term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0)
<steverep> Hoverbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoverbox
<alastairc> We work the definition into the SC text? "For page content which appears only when a triggering element gains focus or mouse over, all of the following are true when that content is visible:"... something like that?
<alastairc> (Sorry, just got off a call, about to hop onto AGWG call)
<JohnRochford> +1 to visibility rather than interference
sr: can change 'interference' to 'visibility'
+1
<allanj> +1
sr: i can reach out to address the objection, though would ask them to propose an alternate suggestion
<allanj> change Focus: "The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any of the popup's components have focus"
<allanj> lowney comment: Exceptions for user canceling the popup should apply to both keyboard and pointer activation.
<allanj> SR will start email conversations with others on AG to solicit suggestions
<allanj> group likes "POPUP"
<allanj> Essential information can be printed with no loss of content.
sh: likely to avoid getting in to the muck, as with the term 'zoom' previously?
ja: what we have right now is pretty simple
sh: one question about testability section, do we remove text about SC being met with HTML and browsers?
<allanj> add to description - How authors can break printing
sh: also under the description. People will ask, 'what breaks this?' so we need to answer how it breaks
<allanj> remove technique G142
<allanj> jim to edit wiki to remove zoom stuff
<allanj> regrets for erich next week
<shawn> Testability
<shawn> Print the page. Check to see that essential content is printed, e.g. no truncated text on right edge of content, no overlapping content.
<shawn> -> Print the page. Check that all essential information is printed with no overlapping content, missing text on right edge of the page, etc.
<shawn> Related Techniques
<shawn> G146: Using liquid layout
<shawn> C28: Specifying the size of text containers using em units
<shawn> SCR34: Calculating size and position in a way that scales with text size
<shawn> include those, too? or not since they're referenced in G179
<shawn> delete "This success criteria is currently met with common HTML and browsers." under "Description" and "Testability" -- and add examples of when it breaks -- more than 100; set box sizes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/ new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869 // Succeeded: s/Sawn, I am using the info Jim provided in the agenda.// Present: Shawn Jim Erich Scott John steverep allanj JohnRochford Regrets: Marla Laura Found Scribe: erich Inferring ScribeNick: erich Found Date: 03 Aug 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]