14:16:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:16:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-irc
14:16:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:16:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:16:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:16:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:16:56 <trackbot> Date: 03 August 2017
14:17:25 <allanj> regrets: Laura, Marla
14:17:28 <allanj> chair: jim
14:17:46 <allanj> Agenda+ Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding
14:17:47 <allanj> Agenda+ Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
14:17:49 <allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html
14:17:50 <allanj> Agenda+ Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
14:18:05 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:18:05 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:19:18 <allanj> Agenda+ Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding
14:19:19 <allanj> Agenda+ Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
14:19:21 <allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html
14:19:22 <allanj> Agenda+ Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
14:55:19 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:55:37 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
14:56:23 <shawn> present: Shawn, Jim
14:56:46 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
14:57:51 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
14:58:43 <JohnRochford> Can't get into WebEx or join by phone.
14:58:45 <shawn> present+ Erich
14:59:34 <erich> scribe: erich
14:59:54 <JohnRochford> Sawn, I am using the info Jim provided in the agenda.
15:00:25 <erich> new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869
15:00:28 <JohnRochford> ok
15:00:41 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-lvtf-info.html
15:00:53 <shawn> s/ new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869 /
15:01:00 <shawn> s/Sawn, I am using the info Jim provided in the agenda.//
15:01:27 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
15:03:27 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: For WebEx, see https://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-lvtf-info.html  (do not put any call-in info in IRC please)
15:04:02 <shawn> Present+ Scott, John
15:04:08 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:09 <Zakim> Present: Shawn, Jim, Erich, Scott, John
15:04:25 <shawn> regrets: Marla, Laura
15:05:51 <shawn> present+ Steve
15:06:10 <erich> zakim, take up item 1
15:06:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding" taken up [from allanj]
15:06:22 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
15:06:28 <steverep> present+steverep
15:06:29 <allanj> present+
15:06:39 <shawn> present- Steve
15:06:43 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:43 <Zakim> Present: Shawn, Jim, Erich, Scott, John, steverep, allanj
15:07:23 <erich> JA: need to start getting our understanding documents together, so let the group know if anyone needs help
15:07:35 <erich> zakim, close item 1
15:07:35 <Zakim> agendum 1, Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding, closed
15:07:36 <allanj> zakim, next item
15:07:38 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:38 <Zakim> 2. Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover) [from allanj]
15:07:38 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)" taken up [from allanj]
15:08:58 <allanj> Summary of issues from Tuesday AG meeting
15:08:59 <allanj> 1. popup, popover, custom tooltip - NOT tooltip or menu
15:09:01 <allanj> 2. tag name change - reduce popup interference (16 yes, 5 no)
15:09:02 <allanj> 3. scope - title attribute (yes/no), is anything else left out?
15:09:04 <allanj> 4. megamenu??
15:11:42 <allanj> Things for Understanding doc
15:11:43 <allanj> if you have to click it, it is not a popup
15:11:45 <allanj> button changing color is not a popup.
15:11:46 <allanj> this SC is intended for authors creating 'non-persistant information' on the screen so they don't interfer with other information
15:11:48 <allanj> Gower - would be nice if the Understanding docs also dissuaded the use of popups in general given the lack of usability for touchscreen users. (from comments on github)
15:11:49 <allanj> @title has support issues - Using the HTML title attribute
15:12:25 <allanj>  other issues
15:12:30 <allanj> Seems folks want @title=tooltip covered. Including tooltip would eliminate the need for for the exception at the start.
15:12:31 <allanj> Tho there will be pushback - see https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270134757
15:12:33 <allanj> see @title on forms - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270964479
15:18:10 <allanj> discussion of to include or exclude tooltip
15:18:45 <allanj> if we include tooltip, then telling authors to not use @title
15:19:47 <allanj> sr: did not get adding tooltip from AG discussion
15:20:19 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #lvtf
15:20:46 <allanj> sr: change popup to something else, change interference to visability
15:20:48 <erich> SM: must be a concrete reason why term "popup" not accepted
15:21:56 <allanj> sr: no consistent term for popup
15:22:30 <allanj> hover box, hover card
15:24:16 <allanj> current SC
15:24:17 <erich> sh: is term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0?
15:24:20 <allanj> Except where the visual presentation of a popup is controlled by the user agent and is not modified by the author, all of the following are true when a popup is visible:
15:24:21 <allanj> Trigger
15:24:23 <allanj>     The Popup does not obscure any part of its trigger.
15:24:25 <allanj> Hover
15:24:26 <allanj>     If the popup is triggered via pointer hover, then the pointer may be moved onto the popup without loss of popup visibility.
15:24:28 <allanj> Focus
15:24:29 <allanj>     The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any of its components have focus, unless the user takes an explicit action to close the popup.
15:24:54 <erich> sr: don't believe so (term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0)
15:25:19 <steverep> Hoverbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoverbox
15:25:21 <alastairc> We work the definition into the SC text? "For page content which appears only when a triggering element gains focus or mouse over, all of the following are true when that content is visible:"... something like that?
15:25:48 <alastairc> (Sorry, just got off a call, about to hop onto AGWG call)
15:27:09 <JohnRochford> +1 to visibility rather than interference
15:27:21 <erich> sr: can change 'interference' to 'visibility'
15:27:27 <erich> +1
15:29:29 <allanj> +1
15:29:39 <erich> sr: i can reach out to address the objection, though would ask them to propose an alternate suggestion
15:30:07 <allanj> change Focus: "The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any of the popup's components have focus"
15:31:40 <allanj> lowney comment: Exceptions for user canceling the popup should apply to both keyboard and pointer activation.
15:33:16 <allanj> SR will start email conversations with others on AG to solicit suggestions
15:33:28 <allanj> group likes "POPUP"
15:34:45 <allanj> zakim, close item 2
15:34:45 <Zakim> agendum 2, Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover), closed
15:34:46 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:34:46 <Zakim> 3. Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76 [from allanj]
15:37:31 <allanj> Essential information can be printed with no loss of content.
15:37:31 <erich> sh: likely to avoid getting in to the muck, as with the term 'zoom' previously?
15:38:04 <erich> ja: what we have right now is pretty simple
15:41:56 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
15:43:40 <erich> sh: one question about testability section, do we remove text about SC being met with HTML and browsers?
15:44:47 <allanj> add to description - How authors can break printing
15:44:49 <erich> sh: also under the description. People will ask, 'what breaks this?' so we need to answer how it breaks
15:46:35 <allanj> remove technique G142
15:47:05 <allanj> jim to edit wiki to remove zoom stuff
15:47:26 <JohnRochford> present+ JohnRochford
15:48:03 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html erich
15:48:08 <allanj> regrets for erich next week
15:48:21 <shawn> Testability
15:48:25 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
15:48:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html erich
15:48:38 <shawn> Print the page. Check to see that essential content is printed, e.g. no truncated text on right edge of content, no overlapping content.
15:48:48 <shawn> -> Print the page. Check that all essential information is printed with no overlapping content, missing text on right edge of the page, etc.
15:50:28 <shawn> Related Techniques
15:50:28 <shawn> G146: Using liquid layout
15:50:28 <shawn> C28: Specifying the size of text containers using em units
15:50:29 <shawn> SCR34: Calculating size and position in a way that scales with text size
15:50:49 <shawn> include those, too? or not since they're referenced in G179
15:55:41 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html erich
15:56:13 <shawn> delete "This success criteria is currently met with common HTML and browsers." under "Description" and "Testability" -- and add examples of when it breaks -- more than 100; set box sizes
15:56:48 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
15:57:50 <shawn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html shawn
17:16:36 <allanj> allanj has joined #lvtf