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17:07:23 <igrigorik> spec audit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/106fu-2acn7JexSadxyKrxQny78WROk6u-Vwlte2zpgg/edit
17:07:34 <nolanlawson> okay taking notes now, please correct me if I goof something
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17:08:07 <nolanlawson> ilya: rIC is ready to go to CR
17:08:23 <nolanlawson> ilya: blocking issue with Beacon is tests
17:08:41 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we're trying to focus on finishing the PR
17:09:36 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we have to delete worker tests because that was removed from the spec. tests need minor cleanup
17:10:29 <nolanlawson> ilya: for HR-time need tests for time-origin
17:10:37 <nolanlawson> toddreif: should be done by EOW
17:11:35 <nolanlawson> ilya: should we merge time-origin into L2? it's in firefox and soon in chrome
17:11:40 <nolanlawson> toddreif: it's in Edge insider too
17:12:45 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we'll see if we can take on tests
17:13:02 <nolanlawson> ilya: ok so it'll go in L2
17:13:43 <nolanlawson> ilya: need to revisit performance timeline before tpac
17:14:30 <nolanlawson> toddreif: should we go back to working draft?
17:14:58 <nolanlawson> ilya: we need to manually push a CR update every time
17:15:16 <nolanlawson> ilya: we'll go back to working draft and revisit after TPAC
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17:16:38 <nolanlawson> ilya: landed tests for page visibility. missing is onvisibilitychange handler. safari supports, firefox implementing. merge into L2?
17:17:39 <nolanlawson> preload: many shipping impl's. let's push for CR by TPAC. problem is unspecced cache behavior
17:17:52 <nolanlawson> (ilya^)
17:18:57 <nolanlawson> ilya: long tasks has editorial issues. is v2 L1?
17:19:10 <nolanlawson> shubhie: haven't done any work on v2 yet, maybe not worth blocking
17:20:23 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we'd prefer to skip v1 and ship v2
17:20:34 <nolanlawson> shubhie: firefox is actively looking at it
17:20:57 <nolanlawson> toddreif: maybe good to get an editorial draft. can't get to CR without 2 impls
17:21:38 <nolanlawson> toddreif: let's get v1 in editorial draft, then put likely v2 chrome stuff into that v1, then drive consensus
17:22:15 <nolanlawson> ilya: whatever firefox chooses from v1/v2 may become the L1
17:23:17 <nolanlawson> ilya: let's tackle editorial issues then watch firefox/edge progress. keep as working draft
17:24:01 <nolanlawson> ilya: user timing missing worker tests
17:24:08 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we'll push on that
17:25:12 <nolanlawson> ilya: server timing making progress, still in draft
17:26:25 <nolanlawson> toddreif: we need to ensure good links in the specs
17:29:08 <nolanlawson> ilya: marcos suggested better format than markdown. we have lots of small specs that are tightly coupled, links are hard to maintain. combine specs?
17:29:49 <nolanlawson> toddreif: performance timeline could theoretically be one spec. problem is keeping things well-defined
17:30:31 <nolanlawson> ilya: hr time and timeline are tightly coupled. hr time was for perf.now()
17:31:39 <nolanlawson> toddreif: different UAs still ship different specs in different rhythms. html5 is a mega-spec though
17:32:03 <nolanlawson> toddreif: let's get consistent first and see if separate specs can work
17:32:46 <nolanlawson> toddreif: can't have broken links
17:33:08 <nolanlawson> nic: people reference subsections and then sometimes those get renamed
17:34:42 <nolanlawson> xiaoqian: one approach is to update upstream spec. or file issue on other spec
17:35:24 <nolanlawson> ilya: respec vs bikeshed: what is the good pattern
17:35:48 <nolanlawson> xiaoqian: error reporting in other spec may help
17:36:00 <nolanlawson> ilya: knowing all upstream links is a hard problem
17:36:19 <nolanlawson> xiaoqian: one big spec doesn't help, most broken links are in html5 spec
17:37:29 <nolanlawson> ilya: marcos says respec has ability to pull in reference. can flag issues for unknown reference
17:38:22 <nolanlawson> xiaoqian: respec always keeps link to latest
17:39:10 <nolanlawson> ilya: pagevisibility issue 29, can we log if page was ever visible
17:39:12 <igrigorik> https://github.com/w3c/page-visibility/issues/29
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17:40:44 <nolanlawson> shubhie: devs need insight into visibility status early on, especially given background throttling. need to know before script registered
17:41:30 <nolanlawson> ilya: things like ctrl-click skew telemetry due to throttling
17:42:05 <nolanlawson> shubhie: devs want to know if page was loaded in background or foreground and whether it was ever visible/hidden
17:43:04 <nolanlawson> ilya: implicit here is that background === throttling. should we expose throttling itself?
17:43:26 <nolanlawson> shubhie: different thing, devs want to know if users got bored and tabbed away
17:45:01 <nolanlawson> nic: telemetry-wise both are useful
17:46:29 <nolanlawson> ilya: we had prerender switch, prerender-to-visible. nobody implemented. could log visibility event to cover tabbing in and out
17:46:46 <nolanlawson> nic: we do that as soon as we're on the page
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17:47:26 <nolanlawson> shubhie: seems a common problem, need analytics before script can load
17:48:27 <nolanlawson> ilya: came up at f2f, issue is analytics can load at any point. onload is well defined point. every entry type can define its own buffer
17:48:57 <nolanlawson> nic: ryosuke pushed back, said max would always be full
17:49:49 <nolanlawson> ilya: can be worked around via loader snippets
17:50:26 <nolanlawson> ilya: does surfacing new entries for page visibility make sense for L2?
17:51:23 <nolanlawson> toddreif: folks I've talked to just want a boolean to say if it was ever non-visible
17:52:19 <nolanlawson> toddreif: goal is to separate pristine foreground pages
17:53:18 <nolanlawson> nic: I think we want "was ever visible" too
17:54:00 <nolanlawson> shubhie: that was the original bug
17:55:14 <nolanlawson> ilya: at which point does this get flipped
17:55:27 <nolanlawson> toddreif: for same tab, when the document is created
17:56:09 <nolanlawson> toddreif: visible/hidden are separate from painted/not painted
17:56:38 <nolanlawson> ilya: facebook wants to know if pages loaded slowly because user switched away and page was throttled. boolean wouldn't address that problem
17:57:12 <nolanlawson> toddreif: pages users never touched, they want a bucket for that
17:57:47 <nolanlawson> shubhie: let's ask if two bits - ever hidden, ever visible - and see if that solves the issue
17:59:04 <nolanlawson> ilya: let's look at high resolution time as primitive PR from tim
18:00:42 <xiaoqian_> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:00:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/26-webperf-minutes.html xiaoqian_
18:00:52 <xiaoqian_> RRSAgent, make log public
18:01:29 <xiaoqian_> nolanlawson++
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