See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribenick: dauwhe
<clapierre> present_ Charles_LaPierre
tzviya: lots of regrets
... mattg wins the service award yesterday, but he can't be
here :(
... welcome to the epubcheck task force
... introductions
rdeltour: Romain Deltour,
DAISY
... working on epubcheck for two years, primary
maintainer
... I'm here to help, but I can't work a lot of hours on the
code
Tobias: I'm Tobias Fischer,
software dev from DE
... creator of Pagina
... volunteering with epubcheck for last 2 years
tzviya: I chair all the
things
... and I do everything
garth: co-chair of DPUB
... Google uses epubcheck in our ingest pipeline
duga: Brady Duga, google
clapierre: Charles LaPierre,
Benetech
... EPUB CG A11y task force co chair
dauwhe: Dave Cramer, Hachette
garth: Kevin Xu is with Google, working on epubcheck in google ingest pipeline
???: Thomas Ledoux: working on epubcheck
Marisa: Marisa DeMeglio, dev from
DAISY
... work on validation
Naomi: I work for Random Penguin, doing epub process development
Wolfgang_: Wolfgang Schindler
from Stuttgart, working on dictionaries
... not a java dev :)
tzviya: regrets from Readium
folks
... we have quite a long agenda
... I don't know about the programming; I'm hear to help
lead
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: our goal is to
make it possible for others to contribute to epubcheck
... break large tasks into smaller tasks
... so we can hand off small tasks
... lots of links in agenda
... we need volunteers
... we need a detailed list of changes from 3.0.1 to 3.1
... this is something a non-dev can do
... with guidance from a mattg doc
... and then create github issues
... this person should start by working with Matt, the world's
nicest human
<Tobias> Matt's current 3.1 changelog: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kgoxSEhF_iTyixj6XaZIc0cgruBNNQknaif4fyXqKto/edit
<tzviya> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kgoxSEhF_iTyixj6XaZIc0cgruBNNQknaif4fyXqKto/edit
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: do we have volunteers to work on this?
garth: what's the one linked in the agenda?
rdeltour: this is not from the work plan doc
tzviya: this is link one
... epub 3.1 validation
<garth> http://www.idpf.org/epub/31/spec/epub-changes-20170105.html
tzviya: we should just go from
here
... matt took that doc, and wrote up the google doc
rdeltour: the google doc is more detailed
Naomi: should we split it up by chunks? I could do some, like do the package doc validation
tzviya: that's excellent
... how much time do you need?
Naomi: If it's just creating provisional github issues, I think I could do it by the 26th
tzviya: end of month?
Excellent.
... you, matt, and I will follow up to get this started
... Matteus may offer to help with other sections
... the next few issues are all connected
... if you look at work plan doc, link 2
<tzviya> https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/wiki/WorkPlan
tzviya: you'll see there is a
maintenance release scheduled for epubcheck, version
4.1.0
... we wanted to get a feel from the group if you think this is
a good idea given there's no 3.1 support
Naomi: there are some retailers
who are having ingestion issues with our files that are not
wrong
... I think we should do this release
<Tobias> current 4.1.0 milestone: https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/milestone/3
rdeltour: I agree. There are many
bug fixes and minor improvements
... we dn't have to wait for 3.1
tzviya: my concern was about publicity, if we release a new version that doesn't include 3.1 it looks bad and is confusing
rdeltour: the story of my life
with epubcheck
... its a matter of marketing. if we make it clear it's a
maintenance release
... and that we're working on 3.1, then we're OK
<clapierre> +1 to Romain's point
garth: I think it's good to make
new version available
... having 4.1 would be good for us
Avneesh: in DAISY we have
experience with maintence releases while major features are in
progress
... we try to communicate that clearly
... I'm COO for DAISY
... DAISY has been quite involved with epubcheck, and I want to
help with a smooth transition
tzviya: so consensus seems to be to go for maintence release
<Wolfgang_> +1 for maintenance release
tzviya: let's talk about resource
requirement
... and how much time is required, and what skills
<tzviya> https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/wiki/TestSuiteCleanup
tzviya: there's link 1.5 with
romain's doc
... romain, can you walk us through this?
... let's break this up into tasks
rdeltour: epubcheck comes with
extensive integration tests
... we have a bunch of epubs we run epubcheck against
... and we check against expected passes/failures
... several hundreds of tests
... test suite has grown organically, and is how hard to
maintain
... after a contribution from ??? devs, dozens of tests were
added, and it was more obv. that tests were hard to
maintain
... in parallel with 3.1 impl, we should clean up and
reorganize test suite
... make it more maintainable
<Wolfgang_> s /nook/Nook/
rdeltour: this is painful for
devs
... I spent more time fixing test suite than making code
changes
... in this cleanup doc, I tried to define some steps
... for us to work on
... 1. define naming convention, for directories and unit test
methods
... there's no convention now
... it's messy
... we have to reorg test directories
... there are two main branches where data is stored
... there's a 20 directory for epub2, and a 30
directory...
... and there's some packaged epubs, and some expanded files,
and some single docs
... and more stuff added by BN folks
... need to merge input data branches
... and cleanup things like having both expanded and
packages
... easier for devs to use expanded
... we have to clean up individual tests
... some are real-world tests
... some are not minimal test cases
... and make a minimal base epub
... and rework test data to work in minimal base
... sometimes a single test case raises several issues
... so we need to split, so each test tests a single
feature
... there's also a companion metadata doc
... epubcheck reads this data
... hard to maintain; we should get rid of these
<Wolfgang_> * has everybody problems to hear Romain?
rdeltour: that's about it
... this is not rocket science, but it's annoying, and needs to
be done
... it will take a long time due to the number of tests, but it
can be done progressively
... after cleanup, we can check for test coverage
... but the cleanup is needed first
tzviya: thanks
... the 4.1 release is our first priorty, you said it's all but
complete
... what do you need from this group to get 4.1 out the
door?
rdeltour: I don't think we need much from the group from 4.1
Tobias: most of the open issues
are things which need to be reviewed, like 15 PRs with code
changes
... so there are only 9 open issues
... for which romain signed up :)
... we could reassign, but I'm on holiday for next 2.5
weeks
... to get 4.1 finished we don't need big help from group
tzviya: if you look in the repo, it's broken into projects
<tzviya> https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/projects
tzviya: the 4.1 project, and 3.1
refactoring/cleanup
... those things could be done simultaneously
... I want to figure out how to break out these tasks into
things we can assign to people who are not romain/tobias
... so we need skills required and time needed
... might be too early to figure this out
... might need training
... right now I can't ask my colleagues to get involved
... Romain, as you work can you add to wiki?
rdeltour: during this call?
tzviya: like naming convention
rdeltour: I don't think we need
call time for naming; one person should volunteer
... for instance, in first example, it's a convention that test
methods start with 'test'
... but the rest we can make shorter
... a volunteer should do a naming pattern
tzviya: I can do that
... reworking test directory org is more complex
... as well as understanding how validation works
... this person would work with Romain/Tobias
rdeltour: clarification:
... it doesn't require knowledge of current tests
... but it does require knowledge about the epub specs and
history
... whether we want to organize by version and domain
... one person can propose something first, and then we can
match that against current test suite to make sure it's
workable
tzviya: brady and garth, no one knows history better than you
<rdeltour> https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/wiki/TestSuiteCleanup
<tzviya> https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/wiki/TestSuiteCleanup
garth: the doc I thought we were using was the work plan
tzviya: there are multiple docs
garth: I see it
... rework test organization
tzviya: romain said it requires
knowledge of history of epub, and how tests might be
organized
... could you or brady do this?
garth: we'll look at it and make comments, and take an initial stab
tzviya: you can put suggestions in the wiki
<rdeltour> +1
tzviya: define a minimal base epub test case
rdeltour: it's not complicated
dauwhe: I can work on minimal test case
clapierre: how can this work?
rdeltour: it's just a base for
all unit tests
... one valid epub file, which can be copied when creating a
new test, and then you tweak something in it to make it
invalid.
clapierre: that makes sense
tzviya: anyone with epub
knowledge could be trained?
... what do you want to see happen here?
rdeltour: we will need to
document what needs to happen
... take one test case in epubcheck
... run it
<Wolfgang_> * Where would I find the test cases?
rdeltour: 2 cases: one, is a test
that's expected to pass
... in that case you just need to minimize the test case, prune
any useless feature from input
... the other case is for expected failures
... we need to look at error messages
... if the messages are about several independent issues, then
we need to split the test case, make one for each error
... and clean up / minimize the input data
Naomi: all of this is in java, right?
rdeltour: the most difficult part doesn't have to do with java, but is about changing the epub content
Wolfgang_: my Q is where I would find the test cases, to get a feeling for them?
<Tobias> testcases: https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/tree/master/src/test/resources
Wolfgang_: can you post a link?
clapierre: is there any IDE support for the java files?
rdeltour: it's possible to run
all the tests at once with Maven
... you might be able to use that for single test
Tobias: you can run single tests with JUnit in Eclipse (?)
tzviya: if that's not possible, that's something we should add
rdeltour: even running epubcheck against the input data gets you a long way
tzviya: true
<BillMcCoy> (staled) Eclipse plugin for running epubcheck (and editing): https://github.com/rkwright/epubcrude
tzviya: as far as resources, and
checking and modularizing
... it's a very manual task. Correct?
rdeltour: correct.
tzviya: most people in call
should be able to understand
... could we divvy up the files among the ten of us
rdeltour: that's a good
idea
... the prerequisite is to have a naming convention, directory
structure, and base epub
tzviya: I'll try to have naming
convention tomorrow
... garth should have directory structure by end of next
week
dauwhe: I can have base epub next week
tzviya: I'll assign everyone on the call, and some other folks... I'll create a list of files, run tests, and work on documentation
<rdeltour> SGTM!
tzviya: everyone will have 2-3 weeks to do that, with ten files to work on
SGML!
tzviya: in a week and a half,
we'll have the prereqs
... four minutes left, for the rest of the agenda
... if we're doing a 4.1 release, when might the 3.1 release be
done?
rdeltour: depends who's gonna do
it
... we don't have dev resources
tzviya: we need to talk to
Laurent
... and do we need to migrate the repo?
... how often should we meet?
... is this a good time to meet?
... it's late in Euroland
Wolfgang_: I would like to have it earlier
<BillMcCoy> apologies for my schedule conflict today (that was a one-off conflict though)
Wolfgang_: one hour earlier?
<rdeltour> late is good for me, kids are quieter :)
Wolfgang_: once per month works
<garth> Agree
<clapierre> +1 on 1/month
Avneesh: time is late for me, but
i may not need to be in all calls
... because Romain is here
tzviya: for next call... I
scheduled this one around Romain and Tobias
... right now we're scheduled for this time next month
... I'll follow up with Romain and Tobias
... right now webex is for the same time on 6 July
... I'll create minutes and send summary
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Marissa/Marisa/ Succeeded: s/C??/COO/ Succeeded: s/???/nook/ Succeeded: s/that/naming convention/ Present: Avneesh tzviya dauwhe Garth Duga rdeltour Charles_LaPierre BillM Found ScribeNick: dauwhe Inferring Scribes: dauwhe WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub3/2017Jun/0005.html Got date from IRC log name: 08 Jun 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/06/08-epubcheck-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]