IRC log of coga on 2017-06-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:20:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:20:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-irc
15:20:57 [lisa]
zakim, this will be WAI_CogTF
15:20:57 [Zakim]
ok, lisa
15:25:14 [lisa]
agenda: this
15:25:15 [lisa]
agenda+ next SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, rewording https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html
15:25:17 [lisa]
agenda+ how to fill in surveys for wcag
15:25:18 [lisa]
agenda+ next meetings -can we set a new time?
15:25:20 [lisa]
agenda+ review sc wording for help
15:25:22 [lisa]
agenda+ Moving forward with the next Success criteria and with personlization
15:25:23 [lisa]
agenda+ the supplement, moving forward
15:25:25 [lisa]
15:25:26 [lisa]
agenda+ be done
15:31:09 [kirkwood]
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15:31:43 [kirkwood]
Regrets today unable to attend
15:49:45 [JohnRochford]
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15:50:19 [kirkwood]
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15:55:27 [lisa]
john K i will be showing how to vote on wcag surveys. do you want me to review it on skype with you tomorow?
15:56:53 [kirkwood]
That would be great. Sorry have a dr appointment now
15:58:01 [AWK]
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16:03:45 [lisa]
scribe: JohnRochford
16:04:03 [lisa]
zakim, next item
16:04:03 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "next SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, rewording
16:04:05 [Zakim]
... https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html" taken up [from lisa]
16:07:58 [lisa]
zakim, next item
16:07:58 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "how to fill in surveys for wcag" taken up [from lisa]
16:08:36 [JohnRochford]
John and Mike will work on Accessible Authentication text this week, as quickly as possible.
16:09:57 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: All should fill in the surveys .
16:12:01 [JohnRochford]
John and Mike: We also don't fill out the surveys because we may not agree but don't want to vote against.
16:13:15 [JohnRochford]
Michael: If people don't vote (no), there will be problems down the line.
16:14:07 [JohnRochford]
Andrew: It's better to vote with comments, but also to vote without them.
16:14:12 [Pietro]
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16:14:33 [Pietro]
Present+ Pietro
16:15:13 [lisa]
can you here us pietro?
16:15:17 [lisa]
hear us?
16:15:19 [Pietro]
I hear
16:15:21 [EA]
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16:15:40 [JohnRochford]
John: To address Lisa's and Andrew's questions, says that one of his concerns, not the primary, is that SC don't go far enough to address user needs.
16:15:49 [Pietro]
yes, I voted sometimes
16:16:18 [JohnRochford]
Andrew: Please don't use the term "voting".
16:17:13 [AWK]
Andrew: We aren't voting per se, just collecting feedback for the group to read/react to
16:17:35 [Pietro]
My problem is not the process but the time to study topics
16:17:36 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: I want to be sure everyone is not having any technical trouble with completing surveys.
16:18:49 [Jan]
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16:18:56 [JohnRochford]
Jan: I don't have technical trouble. My problem is that I'm not sure my understanding is as good as W3C long-time participants.
16:19:03 [Jan]
present+ JanMcSorley
16:19:13 [JohnRochford]
present+ JohnRochford
16:19:18 [AWK]
+AWK
16:19:44 [lisa]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/COGA_help/
16:19:50 [lisa]
ea can you here us?
16:20:51 [lisa]
zakim, next item
16:20:51 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "next meetings -can we set a new time?" taken up [from lisa]
16:20:56 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: It's very relevant that we do vote (answer survey questions) and express any concerns.
16:21:22 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Is Wednesday a good day for everyone?
16:21:36 [JohnRochford]
Jan: Thursdays better.
16:22:02 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: How about same time on Thursday?
16:22:08 [EA]
Sadly I am desperately trying to get sound and having no luck. My headphone test on Webex is perfect and I can see you all talking but not nothing is coming out!
16:22:17 [Pietro]
I cannot Wednesday, I can Thursday
16:22:28 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Will send Doodle poll.
16:22:53 [lisa]
ation: lisa make poll for new time
16:23:08 [lisa]
action: lisa make poll for new time
16:23:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-216 - Make poll for new time [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2017-06-12].
16:23:16 [lisa]
sorry ea!
16:23:41 [lisa]
can you press conect to audion?
16:23:46 [lisa]
zakim, next item
16:23:46 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "review sc wording for help" taken up [from lisa]
16:23:58 [EA]
No worries I am reading... yes I have tried it!
16:24:06 [lisa]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:24:59 [lisa]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:25:02 [EA]
I will try again ... no panic
16:25:27 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Before you respond to the survey about the help and support SC, I would like to know of any concerns with it.
16:26:09 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Example is that we addressed long blocks of text, and we can get more evidence for that.
16:26:49 [lisa]
Long blocks of text: are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided
16:26:51 [AWK]
q+
16:27:13 [Mike_Pluke_]
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16:28:15 [JohnRochford]
AWK: I'm reading that long blocks of text can be addressed by *one* of the following.
16:28:42 [JohnRochford]
AWK: Should we be bumping up the AAA SC that already exists to AA instead?
16:28:42 [AWK]
ack AWK
16:29:21 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: We were told we could not change existing SC.
16:29:40 [JohnRochford]
AWK: You weren't told we could not change the level of SC.
16:30:25 [lisa]
Long blocks of text: are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided
16:30:27 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Describing problems with existing SC.
16:30:33 [AWK]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:30:36 [lisa]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:31:29 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: There were a few SC with overlap, but Jan's writing an email with the differences between them.
16:31:37 [Pietro]
correct "are divide" into "they are divided"
16:33:39 [JohnRochford]
EA: Some European nations have guidelines / requirements for some explicit way to simplify complex text.
16:34:42 [lisa]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:34:52 [lisa]
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bitv_2_0/anlage_2.html
16:34:58 [JohnRochford]
Jan: We are going to get pushback on what's a long doc, which is why we are focusing on long text.
16:35:40 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: We could not find a definition people could live with for long docs.
16:36:16 [lisa]
https://www.lingulab.de/content/barrierefreiheit-bitv-wcag/barrierefreiheit-bitv/
16:36:36 [JohnRochford]
Mike: This would be especially useful for supplemantary information.
16:37:58 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: People could see a summary of sorts from headings, which are described elsewhere in the WCAG.
16:38:59 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: We are saying for numerical content, that we can do any of these things (headings, summaries, etc.)
16:39:29 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Should there be an exception for single digits / real numbers.
16:40:15 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Example - numerical content beyond real numbers
16:40:48 [JohnRochford]
Jan: We should not need an alternative unless there is a need to manipulate the numbers.
16:41:57 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Jan, would you draft that exception?
16:42:03 [JohnRochford]
Jan: Yes.
16:42:38 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Does anyone have any objections to the whole SC?
16:43:37 [JohnRochford]
AWK: There's no organizing connections amongst the 3 parts. How could this be tweaked to make sense for more people?
16:44:36 [lisa]
q+
16:45:10 [JohnRochford]
Jan: Concern is about the cognitive load. I agree we could change the one statement at the beginning, and providing a little more explanation.
16:46:30 [JohnRochford]
AWK: If we are talking about nonstandard controls not having instructions, for example, there may be no dependency on a term such as long document.
16:46:44 [lisa]
q?
16:47:36 [JohnRochford]
AWK: If this should be separated out maybe it could be separate SC.
16:49:37 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Possibly what we could do is that we could separate into different SC as long as doing so would not need a long timeline, such as 2 months.
16:50:28 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Should we take out "one or more of the following"?
16:56:40 [JohnRochford]
EA: Why do we need to define "long document"?
16:57:01 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: Because, for example, the SC needs to be testable.
16:57:44 [JohnRochford]
Lisa: To EA, could we have a word count for each language?
16:58:31 [JohnRochford]
Jan: We are going to have trouble finding a research base for that.
16:58:39 [JohnRochford]
EA: Agrees with Jan.
16:59:40 [AWK]
I'm starting a call at the top of the hour so need to drop
17:00:33 [JohnRochford]
Have to go. Bye.
17:07:17 [lisa]
•Long blocks of text are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized
17:07:19 [lisa]
•Long blocks of text have a summary is provided
18:59:07 [lisa]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:59:08 [lisa]
rrsagent, create minutes
18:59:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-minutes.html lisa
18:59:46 [lisa]
zakim, please part
18:59:46 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Pietro, JanMcSorley, JohnRochford, AWK
18:59:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #coga
19:00:07 [lisa]
rrsagent, please part
19:00:07 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-actions.rdf :
19:00:07 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: lisa make poll for new time [1]
19:00:07 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-irc#T16-23-08