14:04:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:04:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/01-lvtf-irc
14:04:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:04:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:04:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:04:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:04:17 <trackbot> Date: 01 June 2017
14:04:22 <allanj> zakim clear agenda
14:04:30 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:04:30 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:37:11 <allanj> present:
14:37:20 <allanj> zakim, who is here
14:37:20 <Zakim> allanj, you need to end that query with '?'
14:37:25 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
14:37:25 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
14:37:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, allanj, shawn, Zakim, trackbot
14:37:34 <allanj> present+
14:37:42 <allanj> regrets+ Wayne
14:37:43 <allanj> Agenda+ Understanding Docs.  https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21
14:37:45 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 77 Resize Content
14:37:46 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG)
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15:01:07 <erich> scribe: erich
15:01:33 <erich> present+ erich
15:01:41 <shawn> present: Jim, Erich, Shawn, ScottM, SteveR
15:01:57 <allanj> regrets+ Marla
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15:02:36 <steverep> present+steverep
15:03:57 <laura> present+ Laura
15:03:59 <shawn> present+ Laura, Glenda
15:04:10 <shawn> present- SteveR
15:04:19 <shawn> present+ Wayne
15:04:21 <allanj> regrets- wayne
15:04:29 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:29 <Zakim> Present: Jim, Erich, Shawn, ScottM, steverep, Laura, Glenda, Wayne
15:04:36 <Glenda> Glenda has joined #lvtf
15:06:38 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
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15:06:55 <ScottWeb> Weeeeeee
15:07:14 <Wayne> present+ wayne
15:07:18 <allanj> zakim, open item 1
15:07:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Understanding Docs.  https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21" taken up [from allanj]
15:07:42 <erich> JA: They've created a shell for all the understanding docs
15:08:27 <erich> JA: Chairs decided SC Managers would need to fill out the needed information
15:08:48 <erich> JA: SC Managers need to start working on them
15:09:15 <erich> JA: We can morph the wiki to look more like the understanding docs
15:10:17 <erich> LC: Have started mine, but can put in to the wiki
15:11:30 <erich> WD: Linearization is becoming narrower and narrower
15:11:58 <erich> LC: they seem to need to be narrowed to get consensus
15:13:10 <erich> GS: agree, but doesn't mean to just let it get too narrow, need to continue to push
15:14:43 <ScottM> Some of these issues affect COGA as well, how are they addressing these issues?
15:15:38 <erich> WD: Some things marked essential are not actually essential
15:15:58 <steverep> q+
15:16:18 <allanj> ack st
15:17:45 <erich> SR: lots of discussion on Zoom Content, Alastair does great at separating minor differences, wondering if they can be covered under 1 SC
15:18:35 <erich> JA: have a query in about getting CFC on Zoom Content
15:21:18 <erich> WD: letting go of linearization, and limiting the characters, could prompt the realization
15:22:05 <erich> JA: I have edited all wiki and issue pages with links to understanding docs
15:23:54 <laura> Understanding Adapting text in Github: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html
15:23:57 <laura> In the Wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Understanding_Adapting_Text
15:24:14 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
15:24:14 <Zakim> agendum 1, Understanding Docs.  https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21, closed
15:24:17 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:24:17 <Zakim> 2. Issue 77 Resize Content [from allanj]
15:24:26 <allanj> zakim, open item 3
15:24:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG)" taken up [from allanj]
15:25:01 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10
15:26:57 <allanj> gs: does lvtf make authors responsible for color contrast when the browsers don't do it right in the first place
15:26:57 <erich> GS: question is are we going to hold developers responsible for things browser doesn't provide (should browser vendors fix)?
15:27:39 <steverep> Can you catch us up on what fails?  4.5 or 3?
15:28:53 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-SC/luminosity-form-controls.html
15:29:47 <erich> SR: language about if author has or hasn't modified was added at the end, needs to be cleared up
15:30:47 <erich> WD: have a million developers who would need to make this change, 200 million people impacted by it
15:31:01 <laura> Should we be filing bugs?
15:31:08 <allanj> bugs have been filed on Video elements
15:31:22 <erich> GS: am saying that we should go to the browser vendors to make the change
15:34:03 <allanj> Jim will file bugs on contrast of form controls
15:34:58 <laura> User agent control: the appearance of the target is determined by the user agent and is not modified by the author.
15:35:03 <laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60
15:35:42 <erich> GS: language I was proposing would parallel Target Size
15:36:17 <allanj> +1 to adding UA exception
15:36:53 <steverep> q+
15:37:10 <allanj> ack st
15:37:30 <erich> SR: wording doesn't specify what consitutes a modification
15:37:48 <erich> GS: should we say the colors are not modified
15:37:54 <erich> SR: think that would clear it up
15:38:16 <Glenda> User agent control: the colors of the UIC are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.
15:39:07 <erich> LC: should it be contrast?
15:39:35 <erich> GS: we can't provide the contrast, only color
15:40:11 <Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC the user agent default and is not modified by the author.
15:40:44 <Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC is the user agent default and is not modified by the author.
15:41:50 <Glenda> Proposal 2: User agent control: the color(s) and surrounding color(s) of the UIC are the user agent default and are not modified by the author.
15:42:29 <Wayne> q+
15:42:53 <allanj> ack w
15:43:09 <allanj> testing: if anything in the the stylesheet changes the color of the component or the background color surrounding the component, then the color contrast must meet wcag
15:43:51 <erich> JA: unless author has plain white page, and doesn't touch colors of form controls, then they have to touch it
15:44:14 <erich> WD: what if author changes background color in a way that meets it?
15:44:23 <erich> JA: then they are done, and didn't break anything
15:45:47 <Glenda> User agent control: the color(s) and adjacent color(s) of the UIC are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.
15:45:58 <steverep> User agent control: The color(s) of the user interface component and any adjacent color(s) are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.
15:46:06 <ScottM> +1
15:46:16 <erich> +1
15:46:19 <Glenda> +1
15:46:21 <laura> +1
15:46:21 <allanj> +1
15:46:32 <ScottM> +1,000,000,000,000
15:50:31 <erich> JA: we had mentioned doing research and sending out examples, is that still useful?
15:50:45 <erich> GS: I think useful, but may not have the resources
15:52:40 <erich> JA: may have some time and will see what we can do
15:52:53 <erich> JA: Anything else needed on this?
15:53:33 <erich> GS: Don't think so
15:54:10 <steverep> q+ not without public problem
15:54:14 <erich> JA: Graphics Contrast is in the current document without any problem
15:54:53 <erich> JA: The next time they publish another working draft, they will include links to the understanding documents
15:56:50 <allanj> ack st
15:58:33 <allanj> topic: Font width
15:58:37 <erich> WD: have an issue with Font Family
15:59:42 <erich> WD: Not sure where to go with the response about including Chinese, Arabic, and about 95 total according to Unicode
15:59:57 <erich> SH: You might send a note to the nationalization folks
16:00:00 <allanj> CJK fonts are square
16:00:51 <erich> WD: please send the nationalization contact info
16:00:56 <erich> SH: ok
16:01:07 <steverep> q+ So do we not want to add a buffer to character spacing?  I'd be more comfortable if we do.
16:01:27 <Glenda> q+
16:01:44 <laura> May want ot check with Makoto.
16:03:03 <shawn> for wayne -- internationalization interest group: https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/i18n-ig/   Under "How to Join", you have to subscribe to the list before you can send a message...
16:03:09 <erich> ack ste
16:05:23 <allanj> steve: So do we not want to add a buffer to character spacing?  I'd be more comfortable if we do.we already have *letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 em in https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78
16:07:52 <allanj> sr: if user changes letter spacing and font size, will they still pass the SC
16:09:07 <erich> GS: have a question about updating the understanding document
16:09:39 <erich> GS: went in to make the change, and link says you can't commit to the master because it's a protected branch
16:10:09 <erich> JA: I put the wrong link in, and will fix it
16:10:16 <allanj> wd: letter spacing and font changes are about 20% container width
16:12:10 <erich> ack glenda
16:12:38 <laura> Understanding Adapting text: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html
16:14:02 <erich> WD: what if we put limits on the font length and authors could be allowed to change fonts within that range
16:15:32 <allanj> wd: verdana is about the widest "normal" font
16:16:35 <allanj> wd: font can't vary more than 1% from Norm. if user chooses a wider font .... it is on them
16:17:40 <erich> WD: Would say maximum range we would allow would probably be less variance than changes in resolution developers already need to deal with
16:18:34 <erich> WD: my proposal would be to set a limit, and I can do the due diligence
16:19:57 <erich> JA: How are we doing on Icon Fonts?
16:20:05 <laura> Add technique for identifying CSS generated content-images #297 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/297
16:20:14 <erich> SR: I don't think that adding role=img is the best fallback
16:20:22 <allanj> laura and Wayne will work on fonts for Adapting Text #78
16:20:29 <allanj> topic: icon fonts
16:20:31 <laura> Providing a Semantically Identified Icon Font with role=img
16:20:32 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg
16:20:33 <erich> SR: realy think it should be tied to 1.3.1
16:20:54 <allanj> SR: trying to make it a technique for 1.3.1
16:24:26 <allanj> sr: many problems with accessibility support. things that work from screen reader work differently with zoomtext.
16:24:48 <allanj> .... also with aria-hidden,
16:25:22 <allanj> SR: need to push role=img on icons
16:25:41 <allanj> wd: what about abbr?
16:26:23 <allanj> SR: then identifying as text, issues with emoticon and others
16:26:44 <allanj> ... if its a graphic should be marked as a graphic.
16:26:55 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg
16:30:14 <allanj> ja: there is overlapping conflicts with accessibility for one group interfering with accessibility for a different group
16:30:25 <erich> WD: from this discussion, we need more refined semantics
16:31:08 <allanj> ... aria- stuff is hidden, overrides visual labels for speech input folks.
16:33:10 <allanj> ... mouse over behaviour is different from screen reader behavior
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16:33:37 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/01-lvtf-minutes.html erich
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