IRC log of aria-apg on 2017-05-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:52:21 [RRSAgent]
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- 16:52:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-irc
- 16:52:50 [Zakim]
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- 16:53:08 [mck]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 16:53:30 [jamesn]
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- 16:53:35 [sirib]
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- 16:53:47 [mck]
- meeting: May 8, 2017 ARIA Authroing Practices
- 16:55:59 [mck]
- it says the meeting code is invalid when I try to call on the phone
- 16:56:02 [sirib]
- no meeting to day?
- 16:56:11 [sirib]
- I can't access the link
- 16:56:13 [mck]
- yes, there is a meeting if we can have one
- 16:56:38 [sirib]
- can you send me webex link
- 16:57:08 [aaronlev]
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- 16:57:30 [sirib]
- https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4b54b847795d432ef8a2ba82e488fea2
- 16:57:42 [sirib]
- getting meeting has ended or cancelled
- 16:58:02 [sirib]
- oops , sorry
- 16:59:17 [AnnAbbott]
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- 16:59:54 [mck]
- ann, our meeting line has a problem
- 17:00:51 [jamesn]
- <MichaelC> which usually means a sysadmin unilaterally canceled it without telling me
- 17:00:51 [jamesn]
- <MichaelC> I´ll schedule a new one
- 17:01:32 [mck]
- OK, Michiel, I'll make a point of trying to annoy you further.
- 17:01:34 [AnnAbbott]
- Yes, meeting call in has a problem
- 17:01:56 [MichielBijl]
- mck, we’ll see who wins that battle :P
- 17:02:04 [mck]
- don't push me
- 17:02:32 [jamesn]
- jamesn has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=me6dd6407966ea6b8da76b4f40e8df903
- 17:04:46 [aaronlev]
- sorry forgot the pwd
- 17:05:07 [AnnAbbott]
- What is the WebEx password?
- 17:05:17 [MichielBijl]
- scribe: MichielBijl
- 17:05:27 [aaronlev]
- erm what was that
- 17:05:42 [AnnAbbott]
- 666 444 732?
- 17:06:18 [AnnAbbott]
- I've never joined WebEx for this call before - sorry!
- 17:06:32 [AnnAbbott]
- I've always dialed in
- 17:07:22 [jamesn]
- oh dial in number?
- 17:07:39 [jamesn]
- 644 895 856
- 17:07:40 [AnnAbbott]
- Sorry - typo in my password above - it has always been 646 444 732
- 17:08:53 [AnnAbbott]
- when I try 644 895 856, it tells me password is incorrect
- 17:10:05 [MichielBijl]
- agenda+ Modal Dialog
- 17:10:18 [MichielBijl]
- agenda+ Treeview Examples
- 17:10:25 [MichielBijl]
- agenda+ Menu Button
- 17:10:33 [MichielBijl]
- agenda+ Focus for coming week
- 17:13:14 [jemma]
- jemma has joined #aria-apg
- 17:13:37 [MichielBijl]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 17:13:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
- 17:13:56 [mck]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-8%2C-2017-Meeting
- 17:14:29 [sirib]
- what is the password
- 17:15:11 [mck]
- present+ matt_king
- 17:15:16 [MichielBijl]
- present+
- 17:15:29 [AnnAbbott]
- present+ AnnAbbott
- 17:17:20 [jemma]
- present+ JaEunJemmaKu
- 17:18:41 [MichielBijl]
- Related links:
- 17:18:42 [MichielBijl]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/325
- 17:18:47 [MichielBijl]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/321
- 17:18:55 [MichielBijl]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/334
- 17:19:11 [sirib]
- present+ shirishaBalusani
- 17:19:57 [MichielBijl]
- MK: Some people aren’t satisfied with the current text
- 17:20:03 [MichielBijl]
- AA: I made a suggestion
- 17:20:40 [MichielBijl]
- MK: You suggested focus should always return to the element that invoked the dialog, unless that element doesn’t exist.
- 17:20:56 [MichielBijl]
- What about cases where that element isn’t the most logical place for it to go?
- 17:20:59 [MichielBijl]
- AA: ??
- 17:21:12 [MichielBijl]
- JN: isn’t maintaining a logical workflow the most important thing?
- 17:22:05 [MichielBijl]
- AA: if you got a design that’s so flaky, that focus is returned to the element that invoked it, and you can’t get to the element in the logical work flow, that’s a design flaw.
- 17:22:30 [MichielBijl]
- JN: We have a table where you enter new data, after you add one, we set focus to the row after the newly generated one, it’s the most logical place.
- 17:22:56 [MichielBijl]
- In that case it’s quite clear what the user wants to do.
- 17:23:00 [MichielBijl]
- MK: I agree with James
- 17:23:07 [MichielBijl]
- I think there’re some finer points to it
- 17:23:41 [MichielBijl]
- For example if you pressed the “add row” button three times it be useless to have to navigate back to it three times.
- 17:23:48 [MichielBijl]
- These are design decisions.
- 17:24:09 [MichielBijl]
- What we don’t want to do is to limit people that want to make a good design
- 17:26:12 [MichielBijl]
- AA: When a dialog closes return focus to the element that invoked it and have something for edge cases where that element no longer exists.
- 17:26:19 [MichielBijl]
- JN: I agree with that.
- 17:26:28 [MichielBijl]
- MK: I’m not totally fine with that.
- 17:26:54 [MichielBijl]
- MK: Given the contents of this conversation, I have enough to work on something that’s similar to what we have, but shorter.
- 17:27:37 [MichielBijl]
- zakim, take up item 2
- 17:27:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Treeview Examples" taken up [from MichielBijl]
- 17:27:58 [MichielBijl]
- MK: First thing is this question
- 17:28:41 [mck]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/223#issuecomment-298267313
- 17:29:09 [MichielBijl]
- SB: Matt did you get a chance to look at my comments?
- 17:29:24 [MichielBijl]
- MK: Do remember looking at them, don’t remember replying to them.
- 17:29:45 [MichielBijl]
- My question is about specific text.
- 17:30:16 [MichielBijl]
- *Ann reads the issues linked to above*
- 17:30:25 [MichielBijl]
- MK: This point is under the accessibility features.
- 17:30:35 [MichielBijl]
- On all the treeview example pages.
- 17:30:43 [MichielBijl]
- We have a custom focus and hover.
- 17:31:11 [MichielBijl]
- Link to code example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/treeview/treeview-1/treeview-1a.html
- 17:36:08 [MichielBijl]
- MK: What are the differences between the hover and focus state?
- 17:36:30 [MichielBijl]
- MB: On focus the treeitem gets a black border and a light grey background
- 17:36:43 [MichielBijl]
- When you hover the treeitem gets a slightly darker background
- 17:36:50 [MichielBijl]
- In addition to the custom focus state
- 17:36:59 [MichielBijl]
- You also get the default one
- 17:37:30 [MichielBijl]
- I suggest we remove the default one as it usually lacks sufficient indication depending on background.
- 17:37:54 [MichielBijl]
- MK: I’m okay with that
- 17:38:00 [MichielBijl]
- Should we have any guidance on it
- 17:38:20 [MichielBijl]
- JN: People are going them themselves, if not, we can ask them to.
- 17:39:27 [MichielBijl]
- MB: that does sound helpful (a section about focus indication)
- 17:43:47 [MichielBijl]
- *back to focus / hover styles*
- 17:44:42 [MichielBijl]
- MB: The hover and focus styles are applied through JS
- 17:44:54 [MichielBijl]
- Why aren’t these applied through CSS?
- 17:45:10 [MichielBijl]
- The last browser to not support :hover on <li> was IE 6
- 17:46:30 [MichielBijl]
- I’ll make a note of it in the issue
- 17:46:46 [MichielBijl]
- JN: We shouldn’t get stuck on this, perfection won’t get us to ship anything
- 17:47:10 [MichielBijl]
- MK: Agreed, but we should use correct techniques for things because it adds to the credibility of the document
- 17:47:13 [MichielBijl]
- JN: Agreed.
- 17:47:28 [MichielBijl]
- MK: Anything else someone wants to say about treeview before me move on?
- 17:47:33 [MichielBijl]
- zakim, take up next item
- 17:47:33 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
- 17:47:43 [MichielBijl]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 17:47:43 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Menu Button" taken up [from MichielBijl]
- 17:48:00 [mck]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen%20is%3Aissue%20milestone%3A%22Jan%202017%20Clean%20Up%22%20sort%3Aupdated-desc%20review%20menu%20button%20NOT%20menubar
- 17:49:03 [mck]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/383
- 17:51:02 [MichielBijl]
- JN: The issue occurs Firefox, not in Chrome
- 17:52:29 [MichielBijl]
- s/occurs/occurs in/
- 17:52:34 [MichielBijl]
- s/not/but not/
- 17:54:21 [MichielBijl]
- JN: You mention the thing in the thing so they’re cross referenced
- 17:57:57 [AnnAbbott]
- Navigation Menu Button Example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/menu-button/menu-button-links.html
- 18:00:36 [MichielBijl]
- *James sneezes*
- 18:00:47 [sirib]
- lol
- 18:02:01 [MichielBijl]
- MK: When I try to reproduce it it’s not happening for me
- 18:02:13 [MichielBijl]
- AA: James you still have all those browsers still up?
- 18:02:19 [MichielBijl]
- All those you tested in?
- 18:02:25 [MichielBijl]
- JN: Can open them again
- 18:02:44 [MichielBijl]
- Do you want me to test the menu opening again in other browsers?
- 18:02:57 [MichielBijl]
- AA: Yeah, Chrome and IE11
- 18:03:12 [MichielBijl]
- JN: Moves to the typed character, but doesn’t close the menu
- 18:03:19 [MichielBijl]
- Works fine in IE as well
- 18:03:39 [MichielBijl]
- MK: What happens for me in FF 43
- 18:04:04 [MichielBijl]
- If I hit the letter A, it moves the focus to the first item with that letter, but it doesn’t close the menu for me.
- 18:04:11 [MichielBijl]
- JN: Doesn’t for me either
- 18:04:49 [sirib]
- can you please tell which issue we are looking at
- 18:07:21 [MichielBijl]
- 383, I think
- 18:10:02 [MichielBijl]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:10:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
- 20:57:49 [aaronlev]
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