IRC log of aria-apg on 2017-05-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:52:21 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-irc
16:52:50 [Zakim]
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16:53:08 [mck]
rrsagent, make log world
16:53:30 [jamesn]
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16:53:35 [sirib]
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16:53:47 [mck]
meeting: May 8, 2017 ARIA Authroing Practices
16:55:59 [mck]
it says the meeting code is invalid when I try to call on the phone
16:56:02 [sirib]
no meeting to day?
16:56:11 [sirib]
I can't access the link
16:56:13 [mck]
yes, there is a meeting if we can have one
16:56:38 [sirib]
can you send me webex link
16:57:08 [aaronlev]
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16:57:30 [sirib]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4b54b847795d432ef8a2ba82e488fea2
16:57:42 [sirib]
getting meeting has ended or cancelled
16:58:02 [sirib]
oops , sorry
16:59:17 [AnnAbbott]
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16:59:54 [mck]
ann, our meeting line has a problem
17:00:51 [jamesn]
<MichaelC> which usually means a sysadmin unilaterally canceled it without telling me
17:00:51 [jamesn]
<MichaelC> I´ll schedule a new one
17:01:32 [mck]
OK, Michiel, I'll make a point of trying to annoy you further.
17:01:34 [AnnAbbott]
Yes, meeting call in has a problem
17:01:56 [MichielBijl]
mck, we’ll see who wins that battle :P
17:02:04 [mck]
don't push me
17:02:32 [jamesn]
jamesn has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=me6dd6407966ea6b8da76b4f40e8df903
17:04:46 [aaronlev]
sorry forgot the pwd
17:05:07 [AnnAbbott]
What is the WebEx password?
17:05:17 [MichielBijl]
scribe: MichielBijl
17:05:27 [aaronlev]
erm what was that
17:05:42 [AnnAbbott]
666 444 732?
17:06:18 [AnnAbbott]
I've never joined WebEx for this call before - sorry!
17:06:32 [AnnAbbott]
I've always dialed in
17:07:22 [jamesn]
oh dial in number?
17:07:39 [jamesn]
644 895 856
17:07:40 [AnnAbbott]
Sorry - typo in my password above - it has always been 646 444 732
17:08:53 [AnnAbbott]
when I try 644 895 856, it tells me password is incorrect
17:10:05 [MichielBijl]
agenda+ Modal Dialog
17:10:18 [MichielBijl]
agenda+ Treeview Examples
17:10:25 [MichielBijl]
agenda+ Menu Button
17:10:33 [MichielBijl]
agenda+ Focus for coming week
17:13:14 [jemma]
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17:13:37 [MichielBijl]
zakim, take up item 1
17:13:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:13:56 [mck]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-8%2C-2017-Meeting
17:14:29 [sirib]
what is the password
17:15:11 [mck]
present+ matt_king
17:15:16 [MichielBijl]
present+
17:15:29 [AnnAbbott]
present+ AnnAbbott
17:17:20 [jemma]
present+ JaEunJemmaKu
17:18:41 [MichielBijl]
Related links:
17:18:42 [MichielBijl]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/325
17:18:47 [MichielBijl]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/321
17:18:55 [MichielBijl]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/334
17:19:11 [sirib]
present+ shirishaBalusani
17:19:57 [MichielBijl]
MK: Some people aren’t satisfied with the current text
17:20:03 [MichielBijl]
AA: I made a suggestion
17:20:40 [MichielBijl]
MK: You suggested focus should always return to the element that invoked the dialog, unless that element doesn’t exist.
17:20:56 [MichielBijl]
What about cases where that element isn’t the most logical place for it to go?
17:20:59 [MichielBijl]
AA: ??
17:21:12 [MichielBijl]
JN: isn’t maintaining a logical workflow the most important thing?
17:22:05 [MichielBijl]
AA: if you got a design that’s so flaky, that focus is returned to the element that invoked it, and you can’t get to the element in the logical work flow, that’s a design flaw.
17:22:30 [MichielBijl]
JN: We have a table where you enter new data, after you add one, we set focus to the row after the newly generated one, it’s the most logical place.
17:22:56 [MichielBijl]
In that case it’s quite clear what the user wants to do.
17:23:00 [MichielBijl]
MK: I agree with James
17:23:07 [MichielBijl]
I think there’re some finer points to it
17:23:41 [MichielBijl]
For example if you pressed the “add row” button three times it be useless to have to navigate back to it three times.
17:23:48 [MichielBijl]
These are design decisions.
17:24:09 [MichielBijl]
What we don’t want to do is to limit people that want to make a good design
17:26:12 [MichielBijl]
AA: When a dialog closes return focus to the element that invoked it and have something for edge cases where that element no longer exists.
17:26:19 [MichielBijl]
JN: I agree with that.
17:26:28 [MichielBijl]
MK: I’m not totally fine with that.
17:26:54 [MichielBijl]
MK: Given the contents of this conversation, I have enough to work on something that’s similar to what we have, but shorter.
17:27:37 [MichielBijl]
zakim, take up item 2
17:27:37 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Treeview Examples" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:27:58 [MichielBijl]
MK: First thing is this question
17:28:41 [mck]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/223#issuecomment-298267313
17:29:09 [MichielBijl]
SB: Matt did you get a chance to look at my comments?
17:29:24 [MichielBijl]
MK: Do remember looking at them, don’t remember replying to them.
17:29:45 [MichielBijl]
My question is about specific text.
17:30:16 [MichielBijl]
*Ann reads the issues linked to above*
17:30:25 [MichielBijl]
MK: This point is under the accessibility features.
17:30:35 [MichielBijl]
On all the treeview example pages.
17:30:43 [MichielBijl]
We have a custom focus and hover.
17:31:11 [MichielBijl]
Link to code example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/treeview/treeview-1/treeview-1a.html
17:36:08 [MichielBijl]
MK: What are the differences between the hover and focus state?
17:36:30 [MichielBijl]
MB: On focus the treeitem gets a black border and a light grey background
17:36:43 [MichielBijl]
When you hover the treeitem gets a slightly darker background
17:36:50 [MichielBijl]
In addition to the custom focus state
17:36:59 [MichielBijl]
You also get the default one
17:37:30 [MichielBijl]
I suggest we remove the default one as it usually lacks sufficient indication depending on background.
17:37:54 [MichielBijl]
MK: I’m okay with that
17:38:00 [MichielBijl]
Should we have any guidance on it
17:38:20 [MichielBijl]
JN: People are going them themselves, if not, we can ask them to.
17:39:27 [MichielBijl]
MB: that does sound helpful (a section about focus indication)
17:43:47 [MichielBijl]
*back to focus / hover styles*
17:44:42 [MichielBijl]
MB: The hover and focus styles are applied through JS
17:44:54 [MichielBijl]
Why aren’t these applied through CSS?
17:45:10 [MichielBijl]
The last browser to not support :hover on <li> was IE 6
17:46:30 [MichielBijl]
I’ll make a note of it in the issue
17:46:46 [MichielBijl]
JN: We shouldn’t get stuck on this, perfection won’t get us to ship anything
17:47:10 [MichielBijl]
MK: Agreed, but we should use correct techniques for things because it adds to the credibility of the document
17:47:13 [MichielBijl]
JN: Agreed.
17:47:28 [MichielBijl]
MK: Anything else someone wants to say about treeview before me move on?
17:47:33 [MichielBijl]
zakim, take up next item
17:47:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:47:43 [MichielBijl]
zakim, take up item 3
17:47:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Menu Button" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:48:00 [mck]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen%20is%3Aissue%20milestone%3A%22Jan%202017%20Clean%20Up%22%20sort%3Aupdated-desc%20review%20menu%20button%20NOT%20menubar
17:49:03 [mck]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/383
17:51:02 [MichielBijl]
JN: The issue occurs Firefox, not in Chrome
17:52:29 [MichielBijl]
s/occurs/occurs in/
17:52:34 [MichielBijl]
s/not/but not/
17:54:21 [MichielBijl]
JN: You mention the thing in the thing so they’re cross referenced
17:57:57 [AnnAbbott]
Navigation Menu Button Example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/menu-button/menu-button-links.html
18:00:36 [MichielBijl]
*James sneezes*
18:00:47 [sirib]
lol
18:02:01 [MichielBijl]
MK: When I try to reproduce it it’s not happening for me
18:02:13 [MichielBijl]
AA: James you still have all those browsers still up?
18:02:19 [MichielBijl]
All those you tested in?
18:02:25 [MichielBijl]
JN: Can open them again
18:02:44 [MichielBijl]
Do you want me to test the menu opening again in other browsers?
18:02:57 [MichielBijl]
AA: Yeah, Chrome and IE11
18:03:12 [MichielBijl]
JN: Moves to the typed character, but doesn’t close the menu
18:03:19 [MichielBijl]
Works fine in IE as well
18:03:39 [MichielBijl]
MK: What happens for me in FF 43
18:04:04 [MichielBijl]
If I hit the letter A, it moves the focus to the first item with that letter, but it doesn’t close the menu for me.
18:04:11 [MichielBijl]
JN: Doesn’t for me either
18:04:49 [sirib]
can you please tell which issue we are looking at
18:07:21 [MichielBijl]
383, I think
18:10:02 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:10:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
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