Internationalization Working Group Teleconference -- 04 May 2017

<addison> ScribeNick: addison

Agenda

Action Items

https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

action-552?

<trackbot> action-552 -- Addison Phillips to Write to json-ld about potential for a serialization form for natural language strings to address issues with dir and lang -- due 2016-09-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/552

action-554?

<trackbot> action-554 -- Addison Phillips to Work to schedule a review of microformats -- due 2017-03-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/554

action-611?

<trackbot> action-611 -- Addison Phillips to Contact martin to see if unicode-xml will be worked on soon so that wg can decide if alternate next steps are needed -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/611

close action-611

<trackbot> Closed action-611.

<scribe> ACTION: addison: update unicode-xml to indicate current status [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Update unicode-xml to indicate current status [on Addison Phillips - due 2017-05-11].

action-612?

<trackbot> action-612 -- Addison Phillips to Create a bidi/lang recommendations document in order to go to tag -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/612

action-614?

<trackbot> action-614 -- Addison Phillips to Ping anne about encoding tests (reviewing, etc.) -- due 2017-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/614

addison: not sure what to expect from anne

richard: henri going through tests
... and some others
... couple of changes as a result
... do they want to change or should I?
... question is: see you/folks are finding time to look at tests
... what do you see as next steps?
... how should we be involved?

action-615?

<trackbot> action-615 -- Addison Phillips to Finalize floating time article for publication -- due 2017-05-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/615

<scribe> ACTION: richard: give addison access to i18n-drafts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-617 - Give addison access to i18n-drafts [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-05-11].

Info Share

welcoming Bert Bos

bert: more than 20 years ago created the WG
... have been in the group before
... but have been doing other things, such as CSS
... html, xml, mathml, traction protection
... that's teh DNT header
... at W3C a long time
... since this group is looking for help reviewing
... sounded interesting. hope to learn a bit more about the things I'm reviewing and i18n

Radar Review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

Bert: will take ORDL

http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

richard: changing tests for unicode bidi in css
... in writing modes
... bidi isolation didn't work according to test results page
... couple of other values
... but now do seem to work, checked FF
... and chrome seems same
... still behind with Edge

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/writing-modes-bidi#inline

richard: did work on JS course for EdX
... sent comments
... not a lot to say but a few things
... talking about strings in later section

addison: need to add the text about supplementary charasters, drafting reply to your email

najib: have some tests for rare cases
... of isolation

http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/399

Default base direction for documents

<r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017May/0002.html

richard: two links, first is to a ttml issue
... there should be an 'auto' value
... largely about usefulness of auto for insertion of text
... but another way it can be useful
... can be useful as "overall direction" for the document
... currently we say that the default should be ltr
... so if you run across ARabic and don't mark it, it will look wrong
... default auto would use strong character in text to determine

addison: inherits down

richard: TTML uses xsl model for establishing direction in ttml
... region auto
... only have to supply span in cases where rtl paragraphs or spans don't start with a strong
... suggested this to webvtt I think?
... think they accepted
... mati thought it sounded logical

najib: agree on the intention
... it depends on the text in question
... if the text is in an html page
... page normally begins with title
... title may not have same text as normal paragraph

<najib> http://www.w3c.org.ma/Press/securewebauthwg.ar.html

najib: have many texts that being with "W3C... (something)..."
... so always start with a first strong of "W"

richard: those are cases that have to be addressed
... if ttml is by default auto
... dont' have to add rtl at doc top in every doc
... in sitution like w3c---something--- have to do something

addison: concerned about layout effects of this

richard: could do a couple of things,
... in spec-dev could say make default auto
... or say ltr-or-auto
... with discussion of pros-cons
... true for new formats. for ttml not probably usable
... xsl model, overall direction for region derives from writing-mode
... css no longer includes text direction in writing-mode
... writing-mode has no allowance for auto
... TTML use the XSL model and so already have vast number - adding auto would increase that substantially of values for writing-mode
... but wanted to bring up question

David: support this
... if ltr default and we change
... won't break anything I think

addison: suggest we go to larger community?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: create a short document about making direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to www-international@ for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-618 - Create a short document about making direction default recommendation to be 'auto' and send to www-international@ for review [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-05-11].

OWL-Time and urgent reviews

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Aowl-time

<Bert> scribenick: Bert

addison: Most key thing is OWL time describes a whole bunch of things, non-gregorian calendars, etc.
... Fine from LOD POV, but

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/405

addison: looks problematic from i18n.
... Time zones don't use IANA IDs.
... And maybe there's a false assumption about how TZs work, in terms of offset.

r12a: Is that in one of their examples?

addison: Yes
... The standard for time zone in general is IANA. Dateandtime.com has their own, not IANA.
... The example uses abbreviations.

r12a: Level of coverage?

addison: I'm not sure about the level of coverage.

r12a: The example is not a real site...

<addison> https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aest

addison: Sorry, it's the domain ^^^

r12a: No objection from me to sending this comment.

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404

r12a: As separate comments?

addison: Yes
... Need links to Gregorian calendar for "general"

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/403

addison: Time units week, etc. can take decimal value: "6.7 weeks"
... Not entirely clear what those periods are.

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/402

r12a: Comment sounds good to me.

addison: Week number from ISO, but different countries count weeks differently.

r12a: Several countries have different first days for the week, Sunday/Monday.

addison: This is also about what is the first week.

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/401

r12a: "First week of the year is the week containing the first Thursday". Is that an attempt to get around that?
... Might be good to add some of that detail to your comment.

addison: Description of time zone: they say it's a region and an offet, but it is really a bit more than that.
... And the possibility of future changes.

r12a: You might want to point to them to one of our documents,

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/400

<addison> probably www.org/TR/timezone

addison: Last issue is conversion to Gregorian.
... Most times have a defined relation to Gregorian.
... Any comments or objections to these six issues?

Support for bidi in strings

addison: Do we want to talk about bidi strings today? We have 3 minutes.

r12a: Happy to.

<addison> https://aphillips.github.io/i18n-discuss/notes/i18n-action-612.html

addison: I pointed to our other docs about lang. and base direction.
... Added quick pros and cons.
... Example of Payment API spec added dictionary pattern.

r12a: Biggest comment is that Tantek will probably say there is a third option: use control characters from Unicode.

addison: That doesn't solve the language problem.

r12a: But it is worth mentioning.

addison: As a "Solution 3" that we don't recommend?

r12a: Not sure it's a solutuion 3.

<r12a> could be just an additional paragraph

<addison> Note: Leonie's request was about ARIA

<r12a> ok

<r12a> will you reply?

<r12a> addison: yep

- DRAFT -

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

04 May 2017

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