14:51:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:51:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-irc
14:51:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:51:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:51:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:51:07 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:51:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:51:08 <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2017
14:51:18 <allanj> chair: jim
14:52:04 <allanj> regrets: Glenda
15:39:16 <allanj> regrets+ Laura
15:39:36 <allanj> Agenda+ Open AG questionnaires
15:39:44 <allanj> Agenda+ Metadata on Hover
15:39:57 <allanj> Agenda+ Printing customised text
15:40:22 <allanj> s/customised/customized
15:59:29 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
16:01:35 <erich> Scribe: Erich
16:04:42 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
16:04:48 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
16:04:59 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
16:05:07 <steverep> present+steverep
16:05:09 <erich> zakim, who is on the call?
16:05:09 <Zakim> Present: steverep
16:05:26 <erich> present+
16:06:37 <allanj> Present+ Jim, Wayne, Eric, Shawn, Stephen
16:06:58 <erich> present+ ScottM
16:06:58 <ScottM> present+ScottM
16:07:18 <ScottM> whoohoo
16:07:24 <shawn> Present: Jim, Wayne, Erich, Shawn, steverep, ScottM
16:08:47 <allanj> Zakim, Open item 1
16:08:47 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Open AG questionnaires" taken up [from allanj]
16:09:06 <erich> Resize Content, Linearize and Graphics Contrast have been accepted to WCAG 2.1 so far
16:09:33 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SC_20170207/
16:09:34 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SC_review_Feb14_2017/​
16:09:57 <erich> Be sure to contribute your opinions to the 2 surveys currently open
16:16:11 <erich> SH: out clause question regards combined SC 124, we had discussed some alternate text
16:16:38 <shawn> Bottom line: Authors provide content in a format that allows users to change the font, faimly, color, and spacing - and print it that way. (now make that in to SCs! :-)
16:16:48 <erich> JA: I can add a comment to the pull request to see what happens with it
16:20:24 <erich> WD: there will be a break point where you'll need to drop the linearize, but within certain limits you don't have to change the sructure of the page
16:20:33 <allanj> current results Adapting Text survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SC_review_Feb14_2017/results#xnew4
16:22:04 <allanj> close item 1
16:22:27 <allanj> Open item 2
16:22:53 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75
16:23:35 <erich> JA: This may need to be overhauled to say write your own tool-tip that you have control over
16:24:33 <erich> SH: So we're saying we want every person to write their own tool tip?
16:24:37 <allanj> Alastair
16:24:44 <allanj> If we continue with that one, I suggest we narrow it to one of the possible issues:
16:24:45 <allanj> 1. Access to content in title attributes (I suspect this is generally covered by 2.1)
16:24:47 <allanj> 2. Title attribute obscuring other content.
16:24:48 <allanj> 3. Content becoming unusable with large pop-overs (like the Perkins example).
16:24:50 <allanj> It occurs to me that removing title attributes is a very easy script to do, shall we tackle that on the UA site?
16:24:51 <allanj> Does someone want to convert that issue into pop-overs obscuring content?
16:24:52 <erich> JA: Adding Alastair's comments
16:25:29 <shawn> s/tool tip?/tool tip? (no)
16:26:48 <Wayne> +1
16:27:05 <erich> SM: Would not suggest people create their own tool-tips, cause lots of problems. Pop-overs seem like a good methoed
16:27:14 <erich> s/methoed/method
16:27:21 <allanj> current SC text - Informational content that is only shown by hovering a mouse over an element is not used as the only means of conveying information and does not obscure other content.
16:28:47 <erich> JA: We have definition of informational content, but sounds like we need to describe
16:29:25 <steverep> q+
16:31:03 <erich> ack steve
16:31:31 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75
16:34:11 <ScottM> The browser controlled tooltips will usually get out of the way of the mouse
16:35:50 <erich> JA: What is it that we want the author to do, a rule that's testable?
16:35:56 <erich> WD: And do-able
16:37:33 <allanj> do we want users to be able to turn off these pop-overs
16:38:02 <allanj> s/these pop-overs/these pop-overs?
16:39:00 <erich> WD: I can take this as an action to sort it out, though perhaps not by Tues
16:39:23 <erich> JA: This SC is not up on survey yet, so we have time to work on it
16:40:35 <allanj> Action: Wayne to refocus #75 to pop-overs
16:40:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Refocus #75 to pop-overs [on Wayne Dick - due 2017-02-23].
16:41:53 <allanj> close item 2
16:42:06 <steverep> No thoughts on how to fix obscuring stuff, but I wish there was never actionable content within a hover element
16:42:40 <allanj> open item 3
16:42:45 <erich> +1
16:43:14 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
16:43:36 <allanj> Erich manager
16:45:52 <allanj> Erich: when I print document, like the regular print and the none inverted colors. Use CCTV. I print to give to other people. they don't need what I need.
16:46:28 <allanj> ... Comment - wcag is electronic not physical.
16:47:04 <allanj> shawn: need content offline, so print for personal needs
16:47:52 <allanj> examples: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Printing_Customized_Text#Examples
16:49:55 <allanj> Author provides content in a format that allows print customization
16:50:53 <allanj> current SC text: A mechanism is available to allow users to print page content with the presentation changes made by the user.
16:52:46 <steverep> This would be very useful for creating large print handouts when necessary as well
16:55:04 <allanj> shawn: access to information. people need to print for use off line. Authors should provide content in a format that can be printed based on user needs
16:55:39 <shawn> q?
16:56:23 <allanj> Content is in a format that allows print customization.
16:57:42 <allanj> Content is provided in a format that allows print customization.
16:58:41 <allanj> there are issues with presentation modifications being printed directly. Currently, must go to printing layer
16:58:48 <erich> +1
16:59:00 <steverep> q+ customize what?
16:59:27 <allanj> ack s
16:59:28 <shawn> q- customize
16:59:32 <shawn> q- what?
17:00:17 <shawn> Content is provided in a format that allows print customization of #124.
17:00:22 <allanj> customize what?
17:00:40 <allanj> steve: text only?
17:00:52 <erich> SH: Well, there's ideal and then there's minimum
17:01:04 <erich> SH: The issue is what is the acceptable minimum
17:01:39 <shawn> UAAG 2.0 "the user can have content printed as it is rendered on screen,"
17:01:54 <erich> SH: (from uaag) users can have content printed as it is rendered on screen
17:01:54 <shawn> is under "1.4.4 Configured and Reflowed Text Printing: The user can print the rendered content, and the following are all true: (Level AA)"
17:02:07 <allanj> shawn: start with 124, ideally - spacing, font, hyphenation, margins, etc.
17:02:46 <allanj> perhaps user queries https://decadecity.net/blog/2015/06/28/user-queries   and for printing
17:05:03 <allanj> shawn: printing with changes from 124 and reflow. perhaps linearization
17:08:00 <allanj> close item 3
17:11:03 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
17:11:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-minutes.html erich
17:15:42 <ScottM> +q
17:20:23 <allanj> ack s
17:20:50 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-minutes.html erich
19:25:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lvtf
20:51:26 <allanj> rrsagent, clear agenda
20:51:26 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'clear agenda', allanj.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:51:40 <allanj> trackbot, end meeting
20:51:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:51:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:51:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
20:51:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:51:49 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-actions.rdf :
20:51:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wayne to refocus #75 to pop-overs [1]
20:51:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-lvtf-irc#T16-40-35