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17:54:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
17:54:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
17:54:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:54:20 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2017
17:54:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:55:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0048.html
17:56:28 <janina_> present+
17:57:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
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17:59:01 <MichaelC> present+
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18:04:53 <tink> present+ Léonie
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18:06:08 <mck> present+ matt_king
18:06:14 <MichielBijl> present+
18:06:15 <mck> scribe: matt_king
18:06:22 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
18:06:37 <mck> TOPIC: Testable statements and test files
18:07:03 <mck> rs: who can chip in?
18:07:04 <mck> I am leaving in a couple of weeks and will be unable to work on it for a while.
18:07:08 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:07:29 <mck> rs: stefan, can you help.
18:07:41 <mck> stefan: if scope is limited, then probably yes.
18:08:02 <jongund> present+ jongund
18:08:30 <mck> rs: I will point you to a couple of cases to work on ... stefan.
18:08:51 <mck> rs: We have good examples of statements.
18:08:55 <JF> present+ JF
18:09:59 <clown> I can do the next ones about accname.
18:10:06 <mck> rs: Joseph, can you do some testable statements?
18:10:18 <mck> rs: OK Joseph will do accname cases.
18:10:58 <mck> rs: Joanie, question: there is one mac mapping that exposes a function for an action. How ref that in test harness?
18:11:16 <mck> rs: This is for aria-haspopup = listobx.
18:11:19 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupListbox
18:11:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> Expose AXShowMenu and AXPress actions
18:11:37 <mck> rs: How do you represent that if there are no values?
18:12:17 <mck> Joseph: that text was given to Andy when she was the editor. Was given by James Craig.
18:12:35 <mck> Joanie: let me get back to you on that.
18:13:03 <mck> rs: Where it says relations contains, can I use an ID?
18:13:41 <mck> Joanie: for my platform, you can see if a relation of that type is there
18:13:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#combobox
18:13:54 <mck> rs: take a look at last row of that table.
18:14:07 <mck> you can have different types of relations.
18:14:43 <mck> Joanie: that will work.
18:14:59 <mck> I believe it is space delimited.
18:15:16 <mck> TOPIC: Test Harness
18:15:28 <mck> rs: had good discussin with jon yesterday.
18:16:02 <mck> Jon:  Got pointers for AATA for msaa/ia2. And we will get it done.
18:16:21 <mck> After we have the AT test adapter, students can work on test cases.
18:16:38 <mck> RS: Will get together with Joanie next week?
18:16:46 <mck> Jon: After we have some progress.
18:17:07 <mck> TOPIC: HTML 5 Embedded content
18:17:08 <clown> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics-embedded-content.html#semantics-embedded-content
18:17:44 <mck> RS: In aria 1.0, was decided not to do role for audio and video tag b/c required functionality we could not do with aria.
18:18:05 <mck> Met with web components wg, and they want as much parity with html as possible.
18:18:37 <mck> They had not thought about DOM apis for communicqating with script in an audio/video tag.
18:18:43 <mck> This is just for parity.
18:19:10 <mck> We need to gather some use cases, and Janina will talk about them today so we can determine where to go with audio/video.
18:20:51 <mck> rs: Leonie, did you follow the list discussion and see no work has been done on it since september
18:22:31 <mck> Janina: May have cases wider than a11y
18:23:01 <mck> We do not have a defined way of handling medai in html spec. Kind of a free for all. Media controller effort is dead.
18:23:10 <janina_> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
18:23:16 <mck> We have a set of use cases and requirements for a11y.
18:23:23 <mck> We published in this note.
18:23:43 <mck> It is result of 6 year effort that started at meeting at stanfor in 2009.
18:24:25 <mck> The alternatives to a primary resource, which is what we call in the tag, we call it primary media resource.
18:24:51 <mck> Text alt would be markup, not juststraight text.
18:25:09 <mck> There is a list of alternatives that are text based.
18:25:21 <mck> There is a list of binary alternatives, which could be a an audio file.
18:25:41 <mck> Antoerh binary alt is signed captions.
18:25:50 <mck> That is where internationalization comes in.
18:26:13 <mck> Each language  would have its own alternative track.
18:26:34 <mck> There is the real time aspect, which comes into play with web rtc.
18:26:40 <mck> Might be streaming a conference live.
18:26:57 <mck> Say in CA with a conf that is being real time streamed.
18:26:58 <JF> Q+
18:27:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
18:27:11 <mck> In CA, has to be 2 languages; required by law.
18:27:33 <mck> There could be someone doing simultaneous live translation.
18:28:01 <mck> So, the consumer needs to be able to choose the appropriate lang track.
18:28:38 <mck> There is no overarching thing that pulls this together to be something you can access through the browser.
18:29:20 <mck> Need to give consumer control over the experience, choosing language, size/postion of alt, etc.
18:29:31 <mck> How to discover options.
18:29:49 <mck> How do you set default choices.
18:30:02 <mck> How to create a profile.
18:30:45 <mck> This could also be used in a theatre.
18:31:21 <mck> If we get it all right, it should work  ver well.
18:31:28 <JF> https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#attr-track-kind
18:31:55 <mck> jf: tagging on to Janina, html introduced 2kind
18:32:06 <mck> You can dfine subtitles, captions, and descriptions.
18:32:14 <mck> Has a keyword of metdata for scripting.
18:32:29 <mck> Gap in tagging or labeling binary alternatives.
18:32:42 <mck> Have a gap there.
18:32:55 <mck> Other problem: 2 ways of delivering the alternatives over web.
18:33:24 <mck> Could be stand alone files downloaded on demand where track is a child of video element.
18:33:36 <mck> On mobile, it is often delivered in band
18:33:47 <mck> That it is, the alt is part of the mp4 file.
18:34:04 <mck> How do we label the alternatives and get it exposed.
18:34:23 <mck> Janina: Some of the alternatives may not be provided by the original producer.
18:34:55 <janina_> scribe: janina
18:35:15 <janina_> janina: Sometimes, the alternative media may be 3rd party produced
18:35:27 <janina_> rich: Summarizes, what's available? What's set
18:35:45 <janina_> rich: Summarizes: Does the AT need the track?
18:35:49 <janina_> jf: Depends on AT
18:36:02 <janina_> jf: Currently, track reserved for track
18:36:14 <janina_> jf: Reserved for caption, text description, subtitle, etc
18:36:36 <janina_> jf: Problem is the binaries; the audio recorded video description; the sign language video
18:36:56 <janina_> jf: No way to associate the alternative to the primary
18:37:07 <janina_> rich: Does the AT need access to the track
18:37:27 <janina_> rich: You do want to know what's available, and you want to choose the ones you want
18:37:42 <janina_> rich: Based on AT, or platform selection
18:38:00 <janina_> jf: Or, could be website specific--on this site always show me X if available
18:38:10 <janina_> rich: Not going to parse the content
18:39:11 <janina_> janina: AT may need the texted video description to speak it
18:39:15 <JF> Current values for @kind: subtitles, captions, descriptions, chapters, metadata
18:39:22 <janina_> rich: Can the environment do the mixing?
18:39:42 <janina_> janina: Yes, I prefer my video to a second audio device to ensure the screen reader isn't speaking on top of it
18:40:46 <janina_> rich: This is where we need a piece like AOM -- to select and activate on a platform
18:40:52 <JF> missing: Transcript, sign-language video, described audio...
18:41:09 <janina_> rich: Believe there are 3 tightly coupled AOM releases
18:41:27 <janina_> rich: Believe we need to document the use cases
18:41:45 <janina_> rich: We can certainly put some attribs into ARIA 1.2 -- walk available tracks, etc
18:41:57 <janina_> rich: Knowing which one is currently set would definitely be an attribute
18:42:21 <janina_> rich: Also timed text?
18:42:34 <janina_> jf: Yes, in the @kinds it's either TTML or WebVTT
18:43:10 <janina_> jf: Currently, we're looking at client scripted controls
18:43:16 <janina_> jf: Believe our challenge is just labeling
18:43:30 <janina_> rich: We'll also need capability info
18:43:48 <janina_> jf: Can you explain?
18:44:37 <janina_> rich: So if you have text description in Spanish, but no Spanish TTS
18:44:45 <janina_> rich: Stuff like that
18:45:25 <janina_> rich: How sync'd? These binaries have to be sync'd
18:45:35 <janina_> jf: That's why much is delivered inband
18:45:55 <janina_> jf: Wonder whether we need a video manifest -- Here's what's available? What do you need
18:46:32 <janina_> janina: That would be familiar to the Dpub people -- They declare all that
18:47:17 <janina_> rich: So, doing this in ARIA, we don't have to be limited to what HTML has
18:47:37 <janina_> rich: This is why I'd like to see capabilities
18:47:59 <janina_> rich: I believe Web Components want to use components themselves, not html. Is that correct
18:48:08 <janina_> leonie: One use case, the other is extending HTML
18:48:29 <janina_> leonie: Which is why I blieve this needs HTML people in the conversation
18:48:58 <janina_> janina: And I think also i18n for many of the same reasons as a11y
18:49:22 <janina_> rich: Let's assume different types of tracks, with different data about them
18:49:57 <janina_> rich: We could facilitate decisions about how to use those -- We could prototype that and then circle back to Web Platforms, AOM, etc
18:51:01 <janina_> rich: asking JF and Janina to boil down the MaUR to a short expoze of the use cases
18:51:32 <janina_> jf: Additional wrinkle, currently browsers poduce basic controls if you don't serve up your own
18:51:48 <janina_> jf: But the assumption was always that authors would script controls
18:52:01 <janina_> jf: We're going to wnat to insure that native browser controls expose this stuff
18:53:18 <janina_> rich: Anyone not agree about having an audio and video role?
18:53:21 <janina_> [crickets]
18:53:40 <janina_> RESOLUTION: Create an audio and a video role for ARIA 1.2
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18:56:24 <janina_> mc: Clarifying issues
18:56:34 <MichaelC> Audio and video: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/517
18:56:42 <janina_> rich: Video/Audio role issue to Janina
18:57:09 <janina_> mc: Issue to document use cases to JF
18:59:16 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:59:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
19:00:13 <MichaelC> Audio and video use cases: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/518
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19:03:10 <janina_> zakim, bye
19:03:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been janina_, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MichaelC, Stefan, Léonie, matt_king, MichielBijl, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, jongund, JF
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19:03:22 <janina_> rrsagent, make minutes
19:03:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-aria-minutes.html janina_
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