IRC log of wcag-act on 2017-01-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:55:39 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
- 14:55:39 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-wcag-act-irc
- 14:55:41 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:55:41 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #wcag-act
- 14:55:43 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 14:55:43 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 14:55:44 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
- 14:55:44 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 January 2017
- 15:00:23 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Active surveys https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/93339/availability/ https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/93339/ACTTF25Jan2017/
- 15:00:27 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Approval of last week's meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-wcag-act-minutes.html
- 15:00:35 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Draft Section 3.1 Rule Outline https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/43/files?diff=split
- 15:00:46 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Rework of Rule Description Section https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/42/files?diff=split
- 15:00:48 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Draft Section 6.1 Output Data https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/41/files?diff=split
- 15:00:51 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Possible F2F or informal get-together at CSUN
- 15:00:54 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Progress on issues assigned last week - what is ready to survey?
- 15:00:59 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Open issues in Github, feedback from WCAG WG https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues
- 15:01:03 [Wilco]
- agenda+ GitHub demonstration https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/GitHub_Resources_and_Information
- 15:01:08 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Next meeting: February 1st
- 15:02:48 [MoeKraft]
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- 15:03:05 [Kathy]
- Kathy has joined #wcag-act
- 15:03:21 [maryjom]
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- 15:03:30 [shadi]
- scribe: shadi
- 15:03:40 [Charu]
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- 15:04:07 [shadi]
- present: Wilco, Charu, Moe, MaryJo, Shadi
- 15:04:09 [maryjom]
- present+maryjom
- 15:05:42 [Kathy]
- present+ Kathy
- 15:05:43 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:05:43 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Active surveys https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/93339/availability/ https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/93339/ACTTF25Jan2017/" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:06:01 [MoeKraft]
- +1
- 15:06:04 [shadi]
- Wilco: reminder for everyone to complete their surveys
- 15:08:10 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:08:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Approval of last week's meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-wcag-act-minutes.html" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:08:27 [MoeKraft]
- +1
- 15:08:37 [shadi]
- Wilco: approved
- 15:08:40 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:08:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 was just opened, shadi
- 15:08:47 [shadi]
- zakim, close agendum 2
- 15:08:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Approval of last week's meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-wcag-act-minutes.html, closed
- 15:08:49 [Zakim]
- I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:08:49 [Zakim]
- 3. Draft Section 3.1 Rule Outline https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/43/files?diff=split [from Wilco]
- 15:08:49 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:08:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Draft Section 3.1 Rule Outline https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/43/files?diff=split" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:10:18 [shadi]
- Moe: pass/fail criteria should be part of the outline
- 15:10:26 [shadi]
- ...did not see one for the rule itself
- 15:10:27 [maryjom]
- maryjom has joined #wcag-act
- 15:10:45 [shadi]
- Charu: rule outline has a description
- 15:10:54 [shadi]
- ...but also need a pass/fail criteria
- 15:11:03 [shadi]
- ...is that part of the test description?
- 15:11:13 [shadi]
- ...should it be added to the outline?
- 15:11:30 [shadi]
- Wilco: think part of the test procedure
- 15:11:41 [shadi]
- Charu: maybe that covers it
- 15:12:26 [shadi]
- Moe: also comment by Romain
- 15:12:40 [shadi]
- ...think also falls under test procedure
- 15:13:52 [shadi]
- Wilco: think remediation techniques more part of the background
- 15:14:02 [shadi]
- ...maybe separate thing
- 15:14:10 [shadi]
- Moe: so part of the outline?
- 15:15:11 [shadi]
- ...want to make sure we are identifying the correct requirement
- 15:15:23 [shadi]
- ...not sure techniques should be part of the test procedure
- 15:15:44 [shadi]
- Wilco: maybe better to have separate section on remediation?
- 15:15:54 [shadi]
- Moe: as part of the outline?
- 15:16:03 [shadi]
- Wilco: need to think it through
- 15:16:41 [shadi]
- Charu: rule may map to more than one technique?
- 15:16:51 [shadi]
- Wilco: we previously discussed relationship to techniques
- 15:17:09 [shadi]
- ...may not have 1:1 mappings but may be good to record mapping
- 15:17:33 [shadi]
- Charu: than think need to mention techniques where we mention success criteria
- 15:18:00 [shadi]
- Moe: under "associated criteria"
- 15:18:01 [shadi]
- q+
- 15:18:23 [shadi]
- Charu: sounds good
- 15:19:10 [Wilco]
- Shadi: It may be useful to seperate between SC and techniques. SC is what we are testing for. Techniques are related materials
- 15:19:45 [Wilco]
- ... so it should be under another heading, like related techniques. I wonder if a rule can map to more than one criteria
- 15:20:25 [Wilco]
- ... there may be a 1 to 1 mapping to fail techniques. I would be hesitant to get into remediation
- 15:20:50 [Wilco]
- Moe: Are you okay if we call it related techniques?
- 15:20:52 [Wilco]
- Shadi: yes
- 15:20:54 [Wilco]
- +1
- 15:21:26 [shadi]
- Wilco: like that, then we can keep terminology a little clearer
- 15:21:42 [shadi]
- ...currently we call it "accessibility requirements"
- 15:23:50 [shadi]
- Shadi: fine with "accessibility requirements" and "related techniques"
- 15:24:07 [shadi]
- ...just not sure about "remediation"
- 15:24:17 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:24:17 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, shadi
- 15:24:21 [shadi]
- ack me
- 15:24:22 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:24:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Rework of Rule Description Section https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/42/files?diff=split" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:25:24 [shadi]
- Charu: example of failure condition vs scope?
- 15:25:26 [maryjom]
- regrets: Alistair, Romain, Detlev, Alan
- 15:25:31 [shadi]
- ...would say part of both
- 15:27:20 [shadi]
- ...for example, "all images" could be "scope"
- 15:27:45 [shadi]
- ...but "all images missing alt-text" could be the failure condition
- 15:27:59 [shadi]
- Moe: may be putting too much in the description?
- 15:28:19 [shadi]
- ...there are other items where we could put this
- 15:28:37 [shadi]
- ...think description should be simple plain-language description
- 15:30:28 [shadi]
- Charu: suggestion was to expand on the bullets
- 15:31:21 [shadi]
- Wilco: agree with Moe on not indicating success criteria the description
- 15:32:08 [shadi]
- Charu: so more focus on why we have the rule?
- 15:33:09 [shadi]
- Moe: [reads out current outline]
- 15:33:21 [shadi]
- ...seems repeating a lot of what is in the outline
- 15:33:58 [shadi]
- ...requirements and assumptions elsewhere
- 15:34:21 [shadi]
- q+
- 15:34:49 [shadi]
- Charu: so remove these sections from the description?
- 15:35:18 [shadi]
- Wilco: think so
- 15:36:00 [shadi]
- Charu: already have accessibility requirements as a separate section, correct?
- 15:36:09 [shadi]
- Wilco: will be listed in the outline
- 15:36:23 [shadi]
- ...should they also become new sections in the document
- 15:36:56 [shadi]
- Charu: think this makes sense
- 15:37:01 [shadi]
- Moe: me too
- 15:37:25 [shadi]
- action: charu to add these items as separate sections
- 15:37:25 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-21 - Add these items as separate sections [on Charu Pandhi - due 2017-02-01].
- 15:37:40 [shadi]
- Wilco: come right after the description
- 15:37:42 [Wilco]
- q?
- 15:37:56 [Wilco]
- ack s
- 15:38:53 [shadi]
- Shadi: how far away are we from the auto-WCAG rules?
- 15:39:11 [shadi]
- ...previously we said we will have one or two example rules
- 15:39:24 [shadi]
- ...to have something specific to look at
- 15:40:29 [Charu]
- +1 to Shadi, like the idea to have a rule that follows the markup
- 15:40:30 [shadi]
- ...kind of rapid prototyping as we go along
- 15:40:51 [shadi]
- Wilco: can try to put a rule or two
- 15:42:04 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:42:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Draft Section 6.1 Output Data https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/41/files?diff=split" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:45:37 [shadi]
- Wilco: test results include "can't tell" and "unknown", we need to pick one
- 15:45:58 [shadi]
- ...going with "can't tell" unless other thoughts
- 15:46:31 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:46:31 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "Possible F2F or informal get-together at CSUN" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:47:50 [shadi]
- Wilco: still looking for a host
- 15:48:10 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 15:48:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "Progress on issues assigned last week - what is ready to survey?" taken up [from Wilco]
- 15:49:24 [shadi]
- Wilco: [checks on open issues]
- 15:53:37 [shadi]
- Charu: section on limitations and assumption
- 15:54:04 [shadi]
- Wilco: we just decided to take that direction
- 15:54:14 [shadi]
- ...both concepts are quite similar
- 15:54:50 [shadi]
- Charu: why have a rule if you can use it?
- 15:55:08 [shadi]
- Wilco: may need to look at the terminology
- 15:56:09 [shadi]
- Shadi: sometimes also called "pre-conditions"
- 15:56:19 [shadi]
- ...depends on it is phrased
- 15:57:41 [shadi]
- Charu: don't use that approach in our tests
- 15:58:07 [shadi]
- Wilco: sometimes no solution to conflicting requirements for a rule to work
- 15:58:27 [shadi]
- Charu: then we define the rule as possible violation
- 15:58:41 [shadi]
- ...for confirmation by manual testing
- 15:58:53 [shadi]
- q+
- 15:59:48 [shadi]
- Wilco: may be interesting to explore this approach too
- 16:00:00 [Kathy]
- I have to sign off
- 16:01:26 [shadi]
- Shadi: depends on how the tests are designed
- 16:01:37 [shadi]
- ...would be good to check how others approach it
- 16:07:25 [shadi]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 16:07:25 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:07:25 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Wilco, Charu, Moe, MaryJo, Shadi, maryjom, Kathy
- 16:07:33 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:07:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-wcag-act-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:07:34 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:07:34 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-wcag-act-actions.rdf :
- 16:07:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: charu to add these items as separate sections [1]
- 16:07:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-wcag-act-irc#T15-37-25