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17:47:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-irc
17:47:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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17:47:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
17:47:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
17:47:56 <Rich> chair: Rich
17:47:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:47:57 <trackbot> Date: 12 January 2017
17:48:07 <Rich> RRSAgent, make log public
17:48:09 <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0023.html
17:58:50 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:59:15 <Rich> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
18:00:43 <MichaelC> present+
18:00:54 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0023.html
18:00:56 <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0023.html
18:01:30 <janina> present+ Janina
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18:02:54 <JF> Present+ JF
18:04:05 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:04:34 <janina> present+ Janina
18:04:38 <janina> scribe: Janina
18:04:44 <janina> topic: Updates
18:04:57 <janina> rs: Rich will do core HTML mappings review
18:04:58 <tink> present+ Léonie
18:05:16 <janina> topic: Testing & Testable Statements
18:05:35 <janina> rs: We're stuck! Between IA2 and UIA bridges
18:05:51 <janina> jd: Don't know the details, working on at-spi
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18:06:07 <janina> rs: Believe most are in Firefox
18:06:21 <janina> rs: Don't know about Edge
18:06:36 <janina> rs: Will start filling in the test harness
18:07:07 <janina> rs: Would appreciate assistance from the group!
18:07:12 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
18:07:16 <joanie> s/at-spi/ATK+AT-SPI2 and have started, just barely though, on the ATTA for AXAPI/
18:07:43 <janina> rs: Anything else we can do accelerate the auto test harness?
18:08:01 <janina> jd: Written out testable statements would really help
18:08:10 <janina> jd: Also the Apple mappings
18:08:29 <janina> rs: Believe most JFW is done
18:08:39 <janina> rs: Need to check with Domenic re Chrome
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18:08:54 <joanie> s/Also the Apple mappings//
18:09:08 <Stefan> q+
18:09:18 <janina> mk: If we have questions re specific tests, where should we discuss that?
18:09:26 <janina> mk: Mailing list? Git?
18:09:38 <janina> mk: I've questions about grid
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18:10:56 <janina> mk: unclear whose testing problems I'm seeing fall into ... ARIA? HTML?
18:11:07 <janina> mk: Role=grid on table, and nothing on cells ...
18:11:32 <janina> rs: So what does a td convey?
18:11:49 <janina> mk: Hard for me to tell ...
18:12:02 <janina> mk Working off of observed screen reader behavior
18:12:18 <Rich> q?
18:12:22 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:12:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:12:58 <janina> jd: I can examine, if you like. Should be similar/same
18:13:25 <janina> mk: So, wondering whether we should be testing propogation
18:13:42 <janina> mk: Seems grid is unique
18:14:04 <janina> mk: No other ARIA role does anything like that
18:14:18 <janina> rs: May not be just browser, may be AT
18:14:38 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-gridcell
18:14:41 <janina> jd: IA2 has only role=cell
18:15:05 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-cell
18:15:12 <janina> jd: Believe we need testable statements for anything that has changed since 1.0, including changed behavior
18:15:28 <janina> ack st
18:16:03 <janina> stefan: Wondering about Edge support ... Do we have? What's situation with JFW plus Edge
18:16:23 <janina> rs: We will test Edge, we have mappings
18:16:35 <janina> rs: Whether JFW supports Edge isn't our department
18:17:01 <janina> rs: NOte that Edge does not expose DOM
18:17:12 <Rich> q?
18:17:16 <Stefan> q-
18:17:37 <janina> rs: As to where to ask -- list is OK, and on the call is OK.
18:18:34 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-picture-element
18:18:37 <janina> topic: Embedded Content for ARIA 1.2
18:19:00 <janina> rs: We can go through these, but first some examples ....
18:19:04 <Rich> <style>
18:19:05 <Rich>   img {display: block; margin: 0 auto;}
18:19:07 <Rich> </style>
18:19:08 <Rich> <picture>
18:19:10 <Rich>   <source
18:19:11 <Rich>     media="(min-width: 650px)"
18:19:12 <Rich>     srcset="images/kitten-stretching.png">
18:19:14 <Rich>   <source
18:19:15 <Rich>     media="(min-width: 465px)"
18:19:17 <Rich>     srcset="images/kitten-sitting.png">
18:19:18 <Rich>   <img
18:19:20 <Rich>     src="images/kitten-curled.png"
18:19:21 <Rich>     alt="a cute kitten">
18:19:22 <Rich> </picture>
18:19:28 <janina> rs: Note the multiple source support
18:19:34 <janina> rs: Best fit wins
18:19:45 <janina> rs: img is the fallback
18:19:59 <janina> rs: But, we don't want to map multiple sources -- It's only one image
18:20:24 <janina> jd: So what's exposed to AT should be the rendered image
18:21:01 <janina> rs: Wondering where alt is ...
18:21:32 <janina> mc: Believe it's from the fallback img
18:21:46 <janina> mc: So don't need new ARIA feature
18:22:05 <janina> rs: Need to decide whether we expose Picture and Source
18:22:20 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-picture  (no corresponding aria role)
18:22:23 <janina> mc: Suspect you'd map Picture
18:22:44 <janina> mc: So authoring error if img fallback with alt not provided
18:23:02 <janina> mk: Would no alt on imate and ARIOA-Label on Picture be illegal?
18:23:28 <JF> +1 to Matt's suggestion - aria-label on the <picture> element
18:25:11 <MichaelC> mc: HTML mappings needs to say that img embedded in picture isn´t mapped
18:25:40 <janina> rs: What happens with tab index on a descendent
18:25:45 <janina> mc: Should take the parent
18:25:52 <MichaelC> because the picture itself is mapped to img
18:25:58 <janina> mc: Still not sure we've anything to do here
18:26:45 <janina> mc: We're not in a special situation here
18:26:52 <janina> rs: Question is what to convey to user
18:27:00 <MichaelC> the text alternative algorithm should say get text alt from embedded img (preferred) but otherwise from aria-label on picture or something
18:27:01 <jamesn> q+ it strikes me that accessibility of picture is missing something
18:27:42 <janina> jd: I believe we map to role=img
18:28:42 <janina> jn: Can't you also have text?
18:29:01 <janina> mc: If yes, could add to accessible mapping calculation
18:29:12 <janina> js: NO,
18:29:20 <janina> mc: So all HTML AAM, and not our spec
18:30:05 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-picture
18:30:33 <janina> mc: Note AAM isn't complete, and this issue may not have been considered
18:30:41 <janina> js: Yes, we're asked to review
18:31:09 <janina> rs: Not sure what for tab index
18:31:28 <janina> rs: ARIA attribs on Picture allowed, but not mapped
18:31:36 <janina> js: No, not according to AAM
18:31:48 <Rich> Allowed ARIA state and property attributes:
18:31:49 <Rich>     Global aria-* attributes
18:31:49 <Rich> DOM interface:
18:31:50 <janina> js: Maybe I'm looking at old
18:32:01 <clown> https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/#allowed-aria-roles-states-and-properties
18:32:18 <janina> rs: Not sure what with focus
18:32:21 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aria/#allowed-aria-roles-states-and-properties
18:32:45 <janina> mc: Suspect it's underdefined
18:33:00 <janina> rs: Map Picture to Img
18:33:03 <janina> mc: NO, we do nothing
18:33:25 <janina> mc: Nothing to do in ARIA, but much to do with the AAM, which is not us
18:33:50 <janina> rs: Assume content below picture, one of which is the image. Don't want to map both
18:34:19 <janina> rs: In a web component?
18:34:27 <janina> mc: Don't know, but it's all auto
18:35:07 <janina> rs: Unclear how this is used in a component
18:35:15 <janina> mk: Don't get the difference
18:37:12 <janina> mc: Believe a component doing anything fance will be script based, and so this is up to the scripting
18:37:27 <janina> rs: So, an inconsistency in the mapping ...
18:38:07 <janina> mc: Noting Picture is a grouping, you're only picking one image, and how the alt gets to the user is underdefined
18:39:00 <janina> mc: Don't think we need to go to this level of situation handling
18:39:32 <janina> rs: So we have to identify this inconsistency to Web Platforms
18:40:26 <janina> jf: Wonders what happens when fallback is missing
18:40:41 <janina> mc: We can't fix all errors
18:41:08 <janina> jf: Does it still end up something like image1765.jpg?
18:41:16 <janina> mc: That's not specified, of course
18:42:47 <janina> rs: Wondering where my issue is ...
18:42:50 <janina> js: Core AAM
18:44:03 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0006.html
18:44:30 <janina> js: Above contains links on where to file issues
18:44:58 <Rich> Action: Rich As part of HTML-AAM review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the embedded img and last would be the URL of the chosen source. The image child is not mapped
18:44:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2132 - As part of html-aam review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the embedded img and last would be the url of the chosen source. the image child is not mapped [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2017-01-19].
18:45:10 <Rich> action-2132?
18:45:10 <trackbot> action-2132 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to As part of html-aam review: picture maps to img. name computation starts with aria-labelling on picture followed by alt text on the embedded img and last would be the url of the chosen source. the image child is not mapped -- due 2017-01-19 -- OPEN
18:45:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2132
18:46:21 <janina> rs: Continuing -- Iframes ... Do we need?
18:46:23 <janina> mc: Unsure
18:46:31 <janina> rs: Don't believe we need
18:47:02 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-iframe
18:47:35 <janina> mc: Suspect this would now be scripted
18:47:56 <janina> mk: Think no corresponding role is perfect, we want iframe to do nothing. Alternative is none
18:48:02 <janina> mc: Need access to content
18:48:13 <janina> mk: None preserves, and anything inside the iframe
18:48:50 <janina> jn: Can navigate by iframes
18:49:17 <janina> rs: Could be confusing in a mashup
18:49:21 <janina> jn: Yes, sometimes
18:49:39 <janina> mk: Agree we don't need a new role for it
18:49:54 <janina> mk: Perhaps mapping to "none" might be a worthy discussion with AT
18:50:33 <janina> mk: Maybe if we have title -- just like we treat section
18:50:49 <janina> jd: Are we pruning iframes from the tree?
18:51:23 <janina> jd: Just want to avoid nested doc frames
18:52:03 <janina> rs: Leave as is?
18:52:22 <janina> jd: Yes, no ARIA role, but other expose may be useful
18:52:51 <janina> RESOLUTION: No new role for Iframes in ARIA
18:52:53 <Rich> q?
18:53:14 <janina> TOPIC: eMBED eLEMENT
18:53:40 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-embed
18:54:06 <MichaelC> s/eMBED eLEMENT/Embed Element/
18:54:55 <janina> jd: Believe we've morphed the application role recently
18:55:16 <janina> jd: Believe Embed is like 1.1 Application -- Custom control like
18:56:13 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-embed-element
18:56:25 <Rich> Allowed ARIA role attribute values:
18:56:25 <Rich>     application, document or img or presentation.
18:56:37 <janina> rs: Don't believe there's anything for us to do that adds value
18:57:26 <janina> rs: Believe we have what we need
18:57:43 <janina> RESOLUTION: No new role needed for Embed
18:57:49 <janina> mc: Also for Object?
18:57:51 <janina> rs: Yes
18:58:06 <janina> RESOLUTION: No ARIA role needed for Object either
18:58:18 <janina> topic: Next Week
18:58:28 <janina> rs: Pick up with Video and Audio
18:59:02 <janina> RESOLUTION: No ARIA role for Param element
18:59:05 <janina> https://www.disneymoviesanywhere.com/support
19:00:16 <janina> rs: So, for next week.
19:00:38 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:42 <mck> present+ matt_king
19:00:58 <JF> zakim, who is here?
19:00:58 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MichaelC, Janina, JF, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Léonie, matt_king
19:01:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see jamesn, JasonDuan, mck, JF, clown, tink, Zakim, RRSAgent, Rich, Stefan, jongund, JonathanNeal_, janina, MichaelC, Josh_Soref, MichielBijl, timeless, slightlyoff,
19:01:00 <Zakim> ... AmeliaBR, ShaneM, joanie, trackbot, yatil
19:01:23 <janina> zakim, bye
19:01:23 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MichaelC, Janina, JF, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Léonie, matt_king
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19:01:37 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
19:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-aria-minutes.html janina
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