See also: IRC log
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
<laura> Welcome Marla!
<JohnRochford> scribe:JohnRochford
<AllanJ> open item 1
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
AllanJ: This is as close as we are going to get, I think.
(referring to the SC with URL above)
AllanJ: John Avila had an exception, but I agree with Glenda that we should leave it out for now.
+1 to leaving it out for now
AllanJ: Okay with all to leave it out for now?
Hey you, TF members, how about a
+1 or -1?
<erich> +1
<AllanJ> 1
<laura> +1
Wayne: +1
<AllanJ> +1
Andrew: WCAG working group meetings are Tuesdays, 11 AM Eastern Time.
RESOLUTION:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
...
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
Ready for WCAG.
<AWK> Jim will update Issue #10 (https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10) with the wiki content
<AllanJ> Actiion: Jim to update WCAG Github with new text for contrast Minimum (tag with LVTF and ready for review)
<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Github with new text for contrast Minimum (tag with LVTF and ready for review) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Update wcag github with new text for contrast minimum (tag with lvtf and ready for review) [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].
<AllanJ> open, item 2
<Wayne> +1
Wayne: +1 to this SC
JohnRochford: +1
<laura> +1
AllanJ: Any objections to this one?
<AllanJ> no objections
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
RESOLUTION: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum) Ready for WCAG.
<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Gitup for Graphic Contrast Minimum https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Update wcag gitup for graphic contrast minimum https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/informational_graphic_contrast_(minimum) [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].
<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/9
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length
<AllanJ> alastair: I'm not convinced that this SC adds anything if we have reflow. I might just not be getting it, see my email in that thread.
Andrew: Is there any scenario
that someone would want fewer than 80 characters?
... Why 25 characters?
Wayne: 25 is outside the deviation for word length in many languages.
<AllanJ> wayne will add the references to the wiki
Wayne: Example: Russians and Germans are in about the 18 range.
Andrew: Submit the 2 success criteria separately, I suggest.
Wayne: I offer to write an understanding page: short work up this week with references.
<AllanJ> Any objections?
No
<AllanJ> heard no objections
RESOLUTION: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length Ready for WCAG.
<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to add https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length to WCAG GitHub (after wayne update descriptions and references) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Add https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/line_length to wcag github (after wayne update descriptions and references) [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
AllanJ: Any issues with this one?
Wayne: Will change if clause right now based upon suggestion from Andrew.
Thanks, Laura.
+1 to if-clause update
<erich> +1
<AllanJ> +1
<laura> +1
AllanJ: Any objections to sending this SC to WCAG?
<AllanJ> no objections heard
RESOLUTION: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column Ready for WCAG.
<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to post Reflow https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column to WCAG github [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Post reflow https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/reflow_to_single_column to wcag github [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors
<AllanJ> alastair: I suggested turning the SC text around so it is about maintaining functionality when the user applies color changes, I think that would align with WCAG 2 a bit better.
AllanJ: Reviewing suggestions from Alastair.
<AWK> Suggest change: Users must be able to view text with foreground and background colors chosen from the full range of color choices provided by the user agent.
Wayne: +1 to AWK's
suggestion.
... Will replace SC text right now, withh
with AWK's suggestion.
<AllanJ> jim: Wayne to change wording, review the rest of the document for alignment with the new wording and bring it up on Dec 1
Gotta go, folks. Erich, will you please take over scribing?
<erich> Scribe:erich
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover
Jim: What is the scoop?
Laura: Katie came up with best wording for the SC
<AllanJ> Content that is necessary for understanding which appears on hover, must be:
<AllanJ> discernible,
<AllanJ> not obscured by other content, and
<AllanJ> available via any input method.
Jim: I have a thought on second bullet, is the mouse arrow considered content?
Laura: We could drop "by other content"
<AllanJ> Content that is necessary for understanding which appears on hover, must be:
<AllanJ> discernible,
<AllanJ> not obscured, and
<AllanJ> available via any input method.
Marla: The mouse arrow size is user adjustable
Laura: It's constantly obscured in many cases though
<scottm> yes
Jim: Does this new wording work for people?
Marla: What about content that
appears on hover and has an on-mouse out event?
... Would that be an example of a failure of this, or not
apply?
<scottm> Chasing the tooltip
Laura: It's another good example
Jim: So is this situation covered by the wording we have, or not?
Wayne: I think it is
Marla: My last comment, is it's a difficult test case
Jim: Laura, is there anything we
can add to the testability, such as "display all metadata" or
something like that?
... You can get tooltips on some mobile devices, via long press
vs. simple touch
Laura: "display the full metadata"? How about that?
Jim: I am assuming we are only talking about title
Andrew: why? the goal is for it to be technology independent
Laura: Good point
Jim: What do we think? Are we good, or is there any other review that needs to happen?
Marla: Is there a way to
elaborate on what 'discernible' means?
... Is there a way to build in to this that the content has to
remain open for some time?
Laura: Maybe we need a definition? Would you like to work together on that Marla?
Marla: Yes
Wayne: If you look down the page, I have the other situation where you don't have mouse-out
Marla: Those are good examples
Jim: I was looking at WCAG and
thought about 'perceivable', but there's no definition of
'perceivable' in there
... What if we said 'fully visible'?
... Does 'fully visible' work?
+1 to fully visible
Marla: +1
<Wayne> +1 to fully visible
Andrew: I think there may be something in the mobile group about device independence
<scottm> My phone just died
Andrew: we should look at those
<scottm> be back on in a minute
Wayne: We're considering text to all kinds of presentations of text, so the testability needs to be re-thought, because with 6 people with low-vision there are 6 different ways of looking at this
Andrew: If too funamentally different, we may be talking about Silver
<AWK> +AWK
Jim: In the meantime I reviewed the mobile and not seeing any that pertain
<AllanJ> so we will defer till Dec 1.
<AllanJ> wayne: don't want to drop this.
Jim: That's the end of the agenda, if anyone has anything else to bring up
Wayne: Hyphenation
... Wondering whether this is a Silver one
Jim: The mechanisms seem like sort of a dodge
<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Hyphenation
Jim: Is this a make or break? Shawn suggests it should be AA or AAA
<scottm> and we're back
Wayne: Doesn't seem like one we can put forward at this time
Jim: Ok, we won't address at this
time
... Anything else?
HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone!
<laura> bye
rrsagent: make minutes
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