00:00:21 <shawn> have docs in different buckets...
00:00:51 <shawn> Shawn: then what do you do with the breadcrumbs?
00:00:58 <shawn> sharron: eat 'em !
00:04:55 <rjolly> https://www.w3.org/WAI/sitemap.html
00:05:19 <shawn> sitemap https://www.w3.org/WAI/sitemap.html *plus* planned new resources, changes here: https://github.com/w3c/wai-website-design/issues/5
00:06:01 <rjolly> and this issue too? https://github.com/w3c/wai-website-design/issues/17
00:38:09 <shawn> rrsagent, draft meeting
00:38:09 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft meeting', shawn.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
00:38:16 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
00:38:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-eo-minutes.html shawn
00:46:05 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
00:46:05 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
00:46:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Susan, Sharron, eric, Robert, James, Chris, shawn, Brent
00:46:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
00:46:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-eo-minutes.html trackbot
00:46:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
00:46:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:10:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
16:10:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-eo-irc
16:10:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:10:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eo
16:10:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3694
16:10:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:10:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
16:10:12 <trackbot> Date: 15 November 2016
16:10:42 <Sharron> present+ James, Eric, Susan, Chris, Shawn, Sharron
16:10:59 <Sharron> Chair: James
16:11:06 <Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
16:11:17 <Sharron> Topic: Card sorting
16:11:45 <Sharron> Sorting among categories: Implement, Advocate, Understand, Participate
16:12:29 <Sharron> Chris: Will put the cards on four tables, one for each category. everyone move the cards around until we have rough sort.
16:17:26 <Sharron> James: then we will sort within each category...some will fall out of these categories entirely
16:22:19 <Sharron> Shawn: and as we do this, we must remember that with the re-org, the WGs are no longer housed under WAI exclisuvely. We want everyone to find the accessiiblity work going on in all W3C WGs so that will include the (former) WAI groups as well as accessibility work going on in other groups, such as SVG accessibility.
16:23:28 <Sharron> ...so it is open as to what we do with the IA and the visual design of those WG pages since other W3C WGs do not follow a standard design pattern. For example the CSS and DigiPub groups have their own visible presentation.
16:25:27 <Sharron> James: (drawing circles on the board) so these pages will live under W3C need to link to working groups and ones that do not do a11y work won't be linked.
16:25:46 <Sharron> Shawn: There are no WAI groups any longer, they are all W3C WGs now.
16:26:06 <Sharron> ...and IGs as well.
16:26:11 <Sharron> +Howard
16:28:04 <Sharron> Susan: at the reception tonight, can we leave the card sort and project the new site?
16:30:37 <Sharron> James: as long as we make it clear that this is a work in progress
16:38:23 <Sharron> ...as for the handling of groups, we understand there may no longer be groups designated as "WAI groups" but some are exclusively a11y and others have accessibility features going on in there work. We will have to determine how to categorize and link to them.
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17:34:15 <Sharron> Topic: Mobile Accessibility
17:39:32 <Sharron> Susan: Our goal here is to Update content, expand it, and integrate into what is there.
17:41:25 <Sharron> ...current content is an Overview (recently updated by Shawn) common barriers with w/older  and overlap with WCAG2 - to me that no longer makes sense.
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17:41:47 <shawn> hi brent  webex https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m169177c0b16f820566dd72e536d601d4
17:41:52 <shawn> (we're tlaking about mobile)
17:42:01 <Sharron> Sharron: will be codified and clarified in wcag 2.1
17:42:10 <shawn> meeting # 649 023 934   (same password)
17:42:38 <Sharron> James: why are we holding off on native? WCAG applies to those, so many elements apply
17:43:54 <Sharron> Susan: There are many more coming, they are not yet standards but can recommend as IOS standard, not sure we can point them since they are not finalized.
17:44:35 <Sharron> James: Even though there is more coming, we can make the items that apply to native clearer.
17:45:28 <Sharron> Susan: Makes sense, OK will add to the goals
17:45:59 <Sharron> Shawn: those pages do not answer the questions that most people have but do give some guidance for some people so may not want to get rid of them
17:47:25 <Brent> Present+ Brent
17:47:44 <Sharron> Susan: *Really* would like to get rid of the "overlap" documents
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17:51:52 <Brent> webex https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m169177c0b16f820566dd72e536d601d4
17:52:47 <Sharron> James: Should survey at all the content for mobile, see gaps, look as well at the W3C site identify all the gpas. Need a comprehensive paln and integrate mobile into our Palnning.
17:52:59 <Sharron> s/paln/plan
17:54:08 <Sharron> James: I want people to come here, understand that they must do mobile accessibility, and be able to find complete and simple accessibility guidance.
17:55:45 <Sharron> Susan: One of my problems is how we find it...need to tersify and clarify content.
17:56:06 <Sharron> wai/mobile/Overview
17:58:01 <Sharron> Susan: rewriting content is easy part, bigger problem is the overlap docs that are currently obsolet.
17:59:56 <Sharron> Sharron: Can we agree to make these obsolete?
18:00:06 <Sharron> Shawn: May be useful to some people?
18:00:42 <Sharron> James: Were useful at one time perhaps but now we need to make a clear distinction and stand for the fact that WCAG is mobile. period.
18:01:42 <Sharron> Shawn: Can we leave this as a maybe and ask WAI-IG?
18:02:32 <Sharron> Susan: OK as long as we take it out from under mobile section of site, not in IA, I don't feel that it should remain here?
18:08:01 <Sharron> Susan: I propose the following these things to do: Overview docusment will be tersified, and the sub documents (Overlaps with PWD, and overlap with WCAG/mobile) will have relevant content pulled out, integrated and the retired.
18:08:42 <Sharron> Shawn: Planning groups is here, we say that's OK as the paln, and to run past EO
18:08:52 <Sharron> s/paln/plan
18:09:06 <Brent> s/docusment/document
18:10:01 <Sharron> Shawn: And at some point, we should run past WAI-IG to determine if anyone uses them
18:11:16 <Sharron> Susan: Then second pahse is to integrate relevant content rather than have a separate mobile section
18:11:32 <Sharron> s/pahse/phase
18:12:04 <Sharron> James: Persona of a person who only cares about native Android?
18:12:12 <Sharron> Susan: linked from mobile overview
18:13:22 <Sharron> James: we can structure and put anywhere, but if I am navigating with only mobile in mind want to be sure to find it easily
18:13:59 <shawn> shawn has joined #eo
18:14:20 <Sharron> ...a mobile developer wants to see the answer to their problems or concerns. need a clear path for them.
18:14:50 <Sharron> ...so Charlotte needs to know what is coming.
18:15:06 <Sharron> Susan: But we can't set something up that we don't have yet.
18:15:22 <Sharron> James: Must create an IA based on known gaps
18:15:38 <Sharron> Shawn: We don't even know yet
18:16:26 <Sharron> James: Use case: mobile developer comes to W3C to find our what do I do to meet requirements.
18:16:38 <Sharron> Shawn: WCAG
18:16:58 <Sharron> James: Developers won't read it, won't use it, we already know that.
18:17:14 <Sharron> Shawn: Here's the link to the Quick Ref, filtered for mobile
18:17:59 <shawn> Shaaron: if filter for mobile, go to  Techniques - which are mini tutorials
18:18:15 <shawn> ... seen developers do that path
18:18:23 <shawn> s/Shaaron/Sharron
18:19:42 <Sharron> James: In doing the redesign we are competing (if we want to be the go-to site) with other tech support sites like Bootstrap and getting just what they need.
18:22:45 <Sharron> ...we are not well serving our (potentially) largest audience
18:32:00 <Sharron> Susan: After lunch I would like to finish the RA for this phase 1 and then after the redesign is done, jump into Phase 2 get volunteers to help  and integrate and build out mobile content.
18:32:29 <Sharron> Sharron: Can we do that in parallel
18:32:41 <Sharron> Susan: Maybe, when is the launch?
18:33:17 <Sharron> Sharron: March is my hope.
18:33:33 <Sharron> James: No promises since the process continues to bog down our progress
18:33:57 <Sharron> ...and it is meant to be a living site going forward?
18:34:13 <Sharron> Shawn: That is my great hope.
18:41:04 <Sharron> Sharron: need greater awareness in mainstream dev congferences
18:41:20 <Sharron> James: most line developers even go to conferences
18:41:36 <Sharron> ...maybe get together in Austin and brainstorm
18:43:00 <Sharron> Susan: yes would like to get some real data
18:43:23 <shawn> s/ developers even g/ developers don't even g
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21:07:18 <shawn> hi brent - we've got webex audio & screen sharing going now
21:52:57 <Sharron> Topic: EOWG process
21:53:39 <Sharron> Susan: I share James' concerns and realize that time committment of each of us is so limited. Hearing about priorities was helpful. Getting direction on priorities is helpful.
21:53:45 <Brent> q+
21:54:01 <shawn> q+ experiences with mobile since May
21:54:05 <shawn> ack brent
21:54:26 <Sharron> Brent: I also made the suggestion that people have c0-leaders for each resource. What is your feeling on that?
21:54:34 <Sharron> Susan: yes I agree and have asked for that.
21:54:54 <Sharron> ...may not be good for everyone, maybe suggest it expecially for those who are getting stuck
21:57:14 <Brent> +1 for me on issues as well. I try to read all issues before creating more of my own.
21:58:40 <shawn> little help: good topics
21:58:57 <shawn> (rather than update 294)
22:00:08 <Brent> Like Susan sain, I also like it when the editor outlines a list of work by listing and linking issues or pull requests to look at.
22:00:14 <Brent> Helps with focus.
22:00:23 <shawn> s/update 294/Update index.html.erb.md (90344fe)
22:00:27 <shawn> ack me
22:00:30 <shawn> ack shawn
22:01:38 <Sharron> Susan: I got wquickly overwhelmend and stuck on req analysis
22:01:54 <Sharron> ...felt like writer's block and needed help getting unstuck
22:02:23 <shawn> susan: deer in headlights... got stuck
22:02:27 <Sharron> Shawn: So if we hava a "kick-off" meeting for all the RMs, might that be helpful
22:03:11 <Sharron> Susan: yes especially for the bigger things.
22:03:27 <Sharron> Shawn: even some of the smaller ones, you can easily get unstuck
22:04:06 <Sharron> Susan: yes wishing we could get more input, were ambitious at May f2f but now need to reassess - what is working/not working and set reasonable expectations.
22:22:29 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
22:22:29 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
22:22:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
22:22:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-eo-minutes.html trackbot
22:22:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
22:22:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items