12:08:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
12:08:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-irc
12:08:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:08:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:08:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:08:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
12:08:25 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2016
12:08:33 <benws1114> benws1114 has joined #poe
12:08:39 <renato> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161114
12:08:49 <renato> chair: renato
12:08:57 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:23:10 <James> James has joined #poe
12:24:14 <James> present+ james
12:26:18 <renato> Regrets: Phil
12:26:26 <renato> present+ renato
12:28:44 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:29:37 <ivan> present+
12:29:50 <michaelS> present+ michaelS
12:30:27 <Serena> Serena has joined #poe
12:31:55 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian_Ulicny has joined #poe
12:32:09 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:32:37 <victor> victor has joined #poe
12:33:19 <renato> Scribe volunteer?
12:33:24 <benws1114> present+
12:33:42 <victor> present+ victor
12:33:49 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian to scribe
12:34:15 <renato> Approve: https://www.w3.org/2016/11/07-poe-minutes.html
12:34:17 <Serena> present+ Serena
12:34:30 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: Motion to approve minutes?
12:34:33 <michaelS> scribe: Brian_Ulicny
12:34:53 <Brian_Ulicny> Silence taken as resolution to accept minutes.
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12:35:42 <sabrina> present+ sabrina
12:35:42 <Brian_Ulicny> Book Industry group has answered our questions and updated Google Docs doc.
12:35:56 <Brian_Ulicny> "Has everyone seen it?"
12:36:18 <Brian_Ulicny> "Let's look at the comments in the Word doc dated Nov 5"
12:36:40 <Brian_Ulicny> "let's go through those"
12:37:13 <Brian_Ulicny> "Requirement 28.2: weren't sure what display of a work for discovery purposes meant"
12:37:46 <Brian_Ulicny> "Was about displaying snippets of a work in search or other preview texts (Amazon Look Inside the Book)"
12:38:14 <Brian_Ulicny> "So this is not a new requirement.  Supported already."
12:38:27 <Brian_Ulicny> "Anyone think otherwise?"
12:38:31 <Brian_Ulicny> No responses.
12:39:03 <Brian_Ulicny> "next one is UC 29: about chunks -- chunk A is part of chunk B"
12:39:20 <Brian_Ulicny> "Bill says it would be useful to support inheritance."
12:39:42 <Brian_Ulicny> "We support policy inheritance, not asset inheritance, currently"
12:40:36 <Brian_Ulicny> "Next one talks about not having to repeat inheritance constraints"
12:41:16 <Brian_Ulicny> "Next comment is about chunk context.  Different constraints in different chunk contexts"
12:41:40 <James> question+
12:41:50 <Brian_Ulicny> "Won't help when one asset is part of another asset"
12:41:50 <James> q+
12:43:00 <Brian_Ulicny> James: "Tree model of an asset tree used in a different project quickly got very unwieldy."
12:44:15 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "My view is that it might be better to manage the leaves than to manage the tree of assets"
12:45:12 <Brian_Ulicny> "Re 29.4: Identifiers - Using DOIs and ISBNs instead of URIs.  Those are impossible for us."
12:45:48 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "Can use a URN version of a DOI and an ISBN is possible.  But not the non-URI version"
12:45:53 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Agreed"
12:46:46 <Brian_Ulicny> "Re 30.2: Associating permissions with a group of articles - a subscription model is how we interpreted it.  They mean something different."
12:47:21 <Brian_Ulicny> "Party A and Party B associate different permissions with the same products."
12:47:40 <Brian_Ulicny> "We'd just express two different policies with the same target."
12:48:09 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian: "Is this to do with resolving policy conflicts?"
12:48:22 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Really couldn't tell."
12:49:29 <Brian_Ulicny> "From our point of view, an abstract product is denoted by a URI.  Policy applies to that thing, abstract or not."
12:50:02 <Brian_Ulicny> "Next one: at one point do royalties apply?"
12:50:48 <victor> This can also be applied to other media (excerpts of videos, resolution of images, etc.).
12:50:52 <Brian_Ulicny> "used to have a constraint like this in Open Mobile Alliance on seconds played to inform previewing video."
12:51:52 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "His example is not a matter of time.  Reading 2 pages is not a matter of time."
12:52:08 <benws1114> q+
12:52:13 <Brian_Ulicny> "To describe what they need is very complex."
12:52:44 <Brian_Ulicny> BenWS: "a lot this sounds profile-specific."
12:53:01 <James> James has joined #poe
12:53:17 <James> present+
12:53:20 <James> q-
12:53:21 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Bill's next on is UC 33"
12:53:23 <benws1114> q-
12:53:38 <Brian_Ulicny> "Nothing new"
12:54:22 <Brian_Ulicny> "That's all of Bill's comments."
12:55:14 <Brian_Ulicny> Next item: Exit criteria
12:55:31 <Brian_Ulicny> "How are we going to support the vocabulary of terms?"
12:56:13 <Brian_Ulicny> "Found some examples from annotations working group, etc."
12:56:45 <Brian_Ulicny> "All describe things with different levels of specificity"
12:57:04 <Brian_Ulicny> "We need to determine our exit criteria."
12:57:13 <renato> http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/
12:57:19 <Brian_Ulicny> "Our vocab spec"
12:57:27 <Brian_Ulicny> "Section 4 includes everything."
12:57:50 <Serena> Serena has left #poe
12:57:55 <Brian_Ulicny> "One thing we could do is split Section 4 into a core vocabulary"
12:58:31 <victor> (I support this first option)
12:58:44 <Brian_Ulicny> "Another section, 5, common vocabulary for the rest."
12:59:33 <victor> (these terms do not need to be "non-normative")
12:59:41 <ivan> q+
12:59:43 <Brian_Ulicny> "So then we don't have to force implementers to implement everything"
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13:00:15 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "perhaps talking about exit criteria is premature."
13:00:40 <Brian_Ulicny> "Better to ask: what is a conformant usage and a conformant implementation"
13:02:12 <Brian_Ulicny> "Are there pieces of code that do this?"
13:02:47 <Brian_Ulicny> "So I could say that a conformant implementation must be able to produce all the classes and properties of the core vocabularies"
13:03:29 <Brian_Ulicny> "That is a conformant implementation.  If there are at least two of these, this is an exit criterion."
13:03:39 <victor> (I would say conformance is about actions. There is (or there is not) a conformant behaviour)
13:04:44 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "If IPTC uses these vocabularies in its own environment, then this is a proof of the utility? of the standard"
13:05:44 <Brian_Ulicny> Victor: "Conformance consists of a set of tests."
13:06:19 <Brian_Ulicny> "The algorithm must exhibit some behavior."
13:07:13 <victor> (https://hypothes.is/)
13:07:35 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "we do not specify the user interface.  Must produce some structures, which they dump and we determine whether those structures conform or not."
13:08:37 <Brian_Ulicny> Hypothes.is is an annotation engine that implements the annotation standard Ivan mentioned as an example.
13:09:26 <renato> Survey: https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/ropen.do?rid=0atbh53daf7b68efb4d39846bf1ff465369ba
13:09:43 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Next item, is a survey.  TOC from vocabulary."
13:09:58 <Brian_Ulicny> "Which of these have you implemented or plan to implement?"
13:10:12 <Brian_Ulicny> "This will give us a good idea of what's core and what's not."
13:10:34 <Brian_Ulicny> "If everyone is happy with this survey, then let's send it out to implementers."
13:10:37 <benws1114> q+
13:10:51 <sabrina> good idea: +1 from my side....
13:10:52 <ivan> q-
13:11:37 <Brian_Ulicny> BenWS: "Some items will be in a gray area -- not clearly on path to implementation."
13:12:13 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "How about Yes/No/Maybe?"
13:12:23 <Brian_Ulicny> "for plan to implement?"
13:12:39 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "OK. I'll send out."
13:13:58 <Brian_Ulicny> Next item: "F2F meeting"
13:14:08 <Brian_Ulicny> "Phil to send out poll on options."
13:14:43 <Brian_Ulicny> "Madrid and NYC the two options"
13:14:51 <benws1114> My appologies - have to join another call
13:15:11 <Brian_Ulicny> Next item: "Constraint call?"
13:15:25 <victor> +1 to join a constraint call
13:15:25 <Brian_Ulicny> "have an additional call to focus on constraints?"
13:15:42 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc
13:15:46 <Brian_Ulicny> "This seems to have the bulk of requirements."
13:15:56 <Brian_Ulicny> "See Github list."
13:16:06 <Brian_Ulicny> "First 5 are all about constraints"
13:16:12 <Brian_Ulicny> "So let's tackle them"
13:16:23 <Brian_Ulicny> "OK?"
13:16:51 <James> James has joined #poe
13:17:04 <Brian_Ulicny> "Ivan can only do a call tomorrow."
13:17:13 <victor> +1
13:17:53 <victor> 11GMT would be great for me too
13:18:17 <sabrina> Sure.....
13:20:05 <Brian_Ulicny> OK.  Same time tomorrow.
13:21:27 <victor> :)
13:22:18 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Any last business?  No.  Then please read Github issues for tomorrow"
13:22:23 <Brian_Ulicny> C Utomorrow
13:22:37 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:22:54 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:22:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-minutes.html ivan
13:23:07 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:23:07 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:23:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been james, renato, ivan, michaelS, Brian_Ulicny, benws, victor, Serena, sabrina
13:23:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:23:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-minutes.html trackbot
13:23:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:23:16 <RRSAgent> I see no action items