IRC log of poe on 2016-11-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:08:20 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #poe
- 12:08:20 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-irc
- 12:08:22 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 12:08:22 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #poe
- 12:08:24 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 12:08:24 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 12:08:25 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
- 12:08:25 [trackbot]
- Date: 14 November 2016
- 12:08:33 [benws1114]
- benws1114 has joined #poe
- 12:08:39 [renato]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161114
- 12:08:49 [renato]
- chair: renato
- 12:08:57 [renato]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 12:23:10 [James]
- James has joined #poe
- 12:24:14 [James]
- present+ james
- 12:26:18 [renato]
- Regrets: Phil
- 12:26:26 [renato]
- present+ renato
- 12:28:44 [michaelS]
- michaelS has joined #poe
- 12:29:37 [ivan]
- present+
- 12:29:50 [michaelS]
- present+ michaelS
- 12:30:27 [Serena]
- Serena has joined #poe
- 12:31:55 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Brian_Ulicny has joined #poe
- 12:32:09 [Brian_Ulicny]
- present+
- 12:32:37 [victor]
- victor has joined #poe
- 12:33:19 [renato]
- Scribe volunteer?
- 12:33:24 [benws1114]
- present+
- 12:33:42 [victor]
- present+ victor
- 12:33:49 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Brian to scribe
- 12:34:15 [renato]
- Approve: https://www.w3.org/2016/11/07-poe-minutes.html
- 12:34:17 [Serena]
- present+ Serena
- 12:34:30 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: Motion to approve minutes?
- 12:34:33 [michaelS]
- scribe: Brian_Ulicny
- 12:34:53 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Silence taken as resolution to accept minutes.
- 12:35:35 [sabrina]
- sabrina has joined #poe
- 12:35:42 [sabrina]
- present+ sabrina
- 12:35:42 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Book Industry group has answered our questions and updated Google Docs doc.
- 12:35:56 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Has everyone seen it?"
- 12:36:18 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Let's look at the comments in the Word doc dated Nov 5"
- 12:36:40 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "let's go through those"
- 12:37:13 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Requirement 28.2: weren't sure what display of a work for discovery purposes meant"
- 12:37:46 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Was about displaying snippets of a work in search or other preview texts (Amazon Look Inside the Book)"
- 12:38:14 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "So this is not a new requirement. Supported already."
- 12:38:27 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Anyone think otherwise?"
- 12:38:31 [Brian_Ulicny]
- No responses.
- 12:39:03 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "next one is UC 29: about chunks -- chunk A is part of chunk B"
- 12:39:20 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Bill says it would be useful to support inheritance."
- 12:39:42 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "We support policy inheritance, not asset inheritance, currently"
- 12:40:36 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Next one talks about not having to repeat inheritance constraints"
- 12:41:16 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Next comment is about chunk context. Different constraints in different chunk contexts"
- 12:41:40 [James]
- question+
- 12:41:50 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Won't help when one asset is part of another asset"
- 12:41:50 [James]
- q+
- 12:43:00 [Brian_Ulicny]
- James: "Tree model of an asset tree used in a different project quickly got very unwieldy."
- 12:44:15 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "My view is that it might be better to manage the leaves than to manage the tree of assets"
- 12:45:12 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Re 29.4: Identifiers - Using DOIs and ISBNs instead of URIs. Those are impossible for us."
- 12:45:48 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Ivan: "Can use a URN version of a DOI and an ISBN is possible. But not the non-URI version"
- 12:45:53 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "Agreed"
- 12:46:46 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Re 30.2: Associating permissions with a group of articles - a subscription model is how we interpreted it. They mean something different."
- 12:47:21 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Party A and Party B associate different permissions with the same products."
- 12:47:40 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "We'd just express two different policies with the same target."
- 12:48:09 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Brian: "Is this to do with resolving policy conflicts?"
- 12:48:22 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "Really couldn't tell."
- 12:49:29 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "From our point of view, an abstract product is denoted by a URI. Policy applies to that thing, abstract or not."
- 12:50:02 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Next one: at one point do royalties apply?"
- 12:50:48 [victor]
- This can also be applied to other media (excerpts of videos, resolution of images, etc.).
- 12:50:52 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "used to have a constraint like this in Open Mobile Alliance on seconds played to inform previewing video."
- 12:51:52 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Ivan: "His example is not a matter of time. Reading 2 pages is not a matter of time."
- 12:52:08 [benws1114]
- q+
- 12:52:13 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "To describe what they need is very complex."
- 12:52:44 [Brian_Ulicny]
- BenWS: "a lot this sounds profile-specific."
- 12:53:01 [James]
- James has joined #poe
- 12:53:17 [James]
- present+
- 12:53:20 [James]
- q-
- 12:53:21 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "Bill's next on is UC 33"
- 12:53:23 [benws1114]
- q-
- 12:53:38 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Nothing new"
- 12:54:22 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "That's all of Bill's comments."
- 12:55:14 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Next item: Exit criteria
- 12:55:31 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "How are we going to support the vocabulary of terms?"
- 12:56:13 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Found some examples from annotations working group, etc."
- 12:56:45 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "All describe things with different levels of specificity"
- 12:57:04 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "We need to determine our exit criteria."
- 12:57:13 [renato]
- http://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/
- 12:57:19 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Our vocab spec"
- 12:57:27 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Section 4 includes everything."
- 12:57:50 [Serena]
- Serena has left #poe
- 12:57:55 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "One thing we could do is split Section 4 into a core vocabulary"
- 12:58:31 [victor]
- (I support this first option)
- 12:58:44 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Another section, 5, common vocabulary for the rest."
- 12:59:33 [victor]
- (these terms do not need to be "non-normative")
- 12:59:41 [ivan]
- q+
- 12:59:43 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "So then we don't have to force implementers to implement everything"
- 12:59:52 [smyles]
- smyles has joined #poe
- 13:00:15 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Ivan: "perhaps talking about exit criteria is premature."
- 13:00:40 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Better to ask: what is a conformant usage and a conformant implementation"
- 13:02:12 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Are there pieces of code that do this?"
- 13:02:47 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "So I could say that a conformant implementation must be able to produce all the classes and properties of the core vocabularies"
- 13:03:29 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "That is a conformant implementation. If there are at least two of these, this is an exit criterion."
- 13:03:39 [victor]
- (I would say conformance is about actions. There is (or there is not) a conformant behaviour)
- 13:04:44 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Ivan: "If IPTC uses these vocabularies in its own environment, then this is a proof of the utility? of the standard"
- 13:05:44 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Victor: "Conformance consists of a set of tests."
- 13:06:19 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "The algorithm must exhibit some behavior."
- 13:07:13 [victor]
- (https://hypothes.is/)
- 13:07:35 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Ivan: "we do not specify the user interface. Must produce some structures, which they dump and we determine whether those structures conform or not."
- 13:08:37 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Hypothes.is is an annotation engine that implements the annotation standard Ivan mentioned as an example.
- 13:09:26 [renato]
- Survey: https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/ropen.do?rid=0atbh53daf7b68efb4d39846bf1ff465369ba
- 13:09:43 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "Next item, is a survey. TOC from vocabulary."
- 13:09:58 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Which of these have you implemented or plan to implement?"
- 13:10:12 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "This will give us a good idea of what's core and what's not."
- 13:10:34 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "If everyone is happy with this survey, then let's send it out to implementers."
- 13:10:37 [benws1114]
- q+
- 13:10:51 [sabrina]
- good idea: +1 from my side....
- 13:10:52 [ivan]
- q-
- 13:11:37 [Brian_Ulicny]
- BenWS: "Some items will be in a gray area -- not clearly on path to implementation."
- 13:12:13 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "How about Yes/No/Maybe?"
- 13:12:23 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "for plan to implement?"
- 13:12:39 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "OK. I'll send out."
- 13:13:58 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Next item: "F2F meeting"
- 13:14:08 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Phil to send out poll on options."
- 13:14:43 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Madrid and NYC the two options"
- 13:14:51 [benws1114]
- My appologies - have to join another call
- 13:15:11 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Next item: "Constraint call?"
- 13:15:25 [victor]
- +1 to join a constraint call
- 13:15:25 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "have an additional call to focus on constraints?"
- 13:15:42 [renato]
- https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc
- 13:15:46 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "This seems to have the bulk of requirements."
- 13:15:56 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "See Github list."
- 13:16:06 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "First 5 are all about constraints"
- 13:16:12 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "So let's tackle them"
- 13:16:23 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "OK?"
- 13:16:51 [James]
- James has joined #poe
- 13:17:04 [Brian_Ulicny]
- "Ivan can only do a call tomorrow."
- 13:17:13 [victor]
- +1
- 13:17:53 [victor]
- 11GMT would be great for me too
- 13:18:17 [sabrina]
- Sure.....
- 13:20:05 [Brian_Ulicny]
- OK. Same time tomorrow.
- 13:21:27 [victor]
- :)
- 13:22:18 [Brian_Ulicny]
- Renato: "Any last business? No. Then please read Github issues for tomorrow"
- 13:22:23 [Brian_Ulicny]
- C Utomorrow
- 13:22:37 [renato]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:22:54 [ivan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:22:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-minutes.html ivan
- 13:23:07 [ivan]
- trackbot, end telcon
- 13:23:07 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 13:23:07 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been james, renato, ivan, michaelS, Brian_Ulicny, benws, victor, Serena, sabrina
- 13:23:15 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 13:23:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-poe-minutes.html trackbot
- 13:23:16 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 13:23:16 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items