16:03:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
16:03:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-eo-irc
16:03:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:03:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eo
16:03:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3694
16:03:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:03:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
16:03:09 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2016
16:04:43 <yatil> yatil has changed the topic to: Call Info and Agenda for the F2F: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_November_2016
16:12:52 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
16:12:56 <yatil> Chair: Sharron
16:13:01 <yatil> present: Sharron, Eric, Shadi
16:22:03 <yatil> present+ Robert
16:23:13 <rjolly> rjolly has joined #eo
16:29:03 <Sharron> present+ Sharron
16:29:11 <Sharron> Topic: Web Tutorials
16:29:12 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_November_2016/Tutorial_Discussion
16:29:16 <Sharron> Eric:
16:30:04 <Sharron> Eric: Created tutorials update page and done the updates from comments, mostly from Shadi
16:32:16 <Sharron> ...open issue is the basic styling section. I suggested to move it to a separate page, but not eveyone agreed. Do we want to have a wireframe of the carousel to provide a throuogh line based on wireframing.
16:32:28 <Sharron> Sharron: +1 to wireframe
16:33:47 <Sharron> Robert: Would it be a working example, fully functioning with all of the recommendations? Or a static wireframe?
16:33:56 <shadi> q+
16:34:08 <Sharron> Eric: I have envisioned a static example.
16:34:30 <Sharron> Shadi: What is the purpose of the wireframe, what exactly are you suggesting?
16:35:26 <Sharron> Eric: Images of the components of a working carousel as a point of reference for the person reading the tutorial. On the concepts page as an intro.
16:35:36 <Sharron> Robert: Or an the structure page.
16:35:54 <Sharron> s/an/on
16:36:18 <Sharron> Eric: Feedback has been good, quite constructive.
16:36:41 <Sharron> ...leaning toward having a separate styling page although it could be interwoven.
16:37:55 <Sharron> Shadi: I would suggest that if we go with a wireframe (which I like as a way to point to different parts) it be broken out separately after the three main sections - Working Example or something
16:38:21 <yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/full-code/
16:38:26 <Sharron> ...wireframed illustration and then working example, and then source code
16:38:49 <yatil> present+ Chris
16:38:53 <Sharron> present+ Chris
16:40:24 <shadi> present+
16:44:00 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
16:48:10 <Sharron> Chris: My experince says styling is a separate topic and will be atteneded by a different person. It makes sesne to have it on a separate page.
16:48:16 <shadi> q+
16:48:39 <Sharron> s/atteneded /attended
16:49:23 <Sharron> Shadi: OK I am coming more to that point of videw. Just want to make sure we don't go too far away from the core lesson in accessibility.
16:49:41 <Chris_Langston> Chris_Langston has joined #eo
16:50:20 <shadi> +1 to that suggested resolution
16:50:23 <Sharron> RESOLUTION: Eric to propose a separate Styling page that is very specific to Carousels and accessibility.
16:50:28 <rjolly> +1
16:50:28 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
16:50:30 <yatil> +1
16:50:33 <Chris_Langston> +1
16:50:34 <shadi> +1
16:56:14 <shadi> q-
16:56:28 <Sharron> Shadi: Like the way the navigation highlights the content pages with numbering. Anyway to accent that even more?
16:57:06 <Sharron> Eric: Maybe make the pattern clear to the redesign group and not spend the time to tweak designs right now.
17:00:59 <Sharron> ...good, I have made my notes, I think this Tutorial discussion can be concluded, next is page Structure.
17:01:18 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_November_2016/Tutorial_Discussion#Page_Structrure
17:02:48 <Sharron> Eric: At this point, we have done less organizational thinking so we can look at the structure of this. Shadi has suggested that we break this up,  and has posted to the wiki.
17:04:14 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_November_2016/Tutorial_Discussion#Proposal_from_Shadi_.28for_lively.21_discussion.29
17:05:11 <Sharron> Chris: I have concern about the potential for confusion between In-page navigation and site navigation. People may not make that distinction.
17:05:39 <shadi> +1 to quick turn-arounds
17:05:41 <Sharron> ...but I think it is a good idea to break it up and allow people to find and use what they need.
17:06:17 <Sharron> Eric: and it would allow us to complete short focused tutorials more quickly.
17:06:45 <shadi> q+
17:07:02 <Sharron> ...not sure that this is the right approach to do that, especailly because we have the three topics that are so similar. Maybe re-think how we refer to them.
17:07:26 <shadi> ack me
17:07:54 <Sharron> Shadi: Agree and the idea is to cross reference tutorials that suport each other.
17:10:39 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
17:13:46 <Sharron> Chris; How do these relate to the actual guidelines which always come up first in search?
17:14:01 <Sharron> Eric: if we institute smart search, it may be better.
17:15:11 <Sharron> s/especailly/especially
17:16:06 <shadi> +1 to more wireframes
17:16:28 <Sharron> Chris: When I raise a concern for one or the other of the designer/developer group, the other side checks out. I worry about how these tutorials try to serve both masters and could alienate the other side of this equation.
17:17:24 <Sharron> Eric: Yes it is a hard thing to do.
17:17:27 <shadi> q+
17:18:14 <Sharron> Sharron: and on this topic, it is not as clear which belongs to what camp.
17:18:33 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/tips/designing.html#use-headings-and-spacing-to-group-related-content
17:19:16 <Sharron> Chris: Have had success with serving same content to different groups with different landing pages to make it seem customized.
17:20:46 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
17:22:35 <Sharron> Eric: Something for consideration as we redesign site. For the current wireframe however, eric @@@@
17:23:15 <yatil> s/eric @@@@/we might want to explore it on new tutorials first and then add it to the older tutorials in the future.
17:23:16 <Sharron> Shadi: Do we know anyone who can help?
17:23:33 <Sharron> Robert: I am willing to help.
17:26:36 <Sharron> RESOLUTION: Page Structure tutorial will be broken into smaller, more specific units.
17:26:41 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
17:26:44 <yatil> +1
17:26:46 <rjolly> +1
17:26:47 <Chris_Langston> +1
17:26:49 <shadi> +1
17:29:49 <Brent> +1
17:33:15 <Sharron> Sharron: and what do we want those smaller, more focused elements to be?
17:34:11 <Sharron> Eric: it is here https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_November_2016/Tutorial_Discussion#Proposal_from_Shadi_.28for_lively.21_discussion.29
17:41:01 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
17:44:22 <rjolly__> rjolly__ has joined #eo
17:50:25 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
18:03:36 <shawn> shawn has joined #eo
18:12:16 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-eo-minutes.html shawn
18:13:13 <shawn> be prescriptive - not descriptive:
18:13:43 <shawn> "most websites have a region" -> "if your website has a region, then..."
18:13:54 <shawn> present+ Shawn(11:00)
18:14:32 <Sharron> robert: expose the code itself on a separate page
18:16:26 <shawn> present+ James
18:16:42 <shawn> present- shadi
18:16:48 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:16:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/14-eo-minutes.html shawn
18:19:30 <shadi> +1 to include backup
18:23:03 <shadi> HTML4 and ARIA
18:34:47 <James_> James_ has joined #eo
18:35:00 <James_> Present+ James
18:41:12 <yatil> q+ Shawn
18:41:22 <shawn> ack shadi
18:41:45 <shawn> shadi: maybe share....
18:41:54 <shawn> shawn: scope creep and loer priority
18:41:59 <shawn> eric: +3
18:42:17 <shawn> s/and loer/and lower
19:16:40 <shawn> q+ Chris
19:16:42 <shawn> q+ shawn
19:16:47 <shawn> ack chris
19:17:08 <shadi> q+
19:17:27 <shawn> ack shawn
19:20:38 <yatil> q+
19:20:40 <yatil> ack sh
19:20:59 <shadi> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/functionality/#announce-the-current-item
19:23:06 <yatil> ack me
19:24:28 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
21:15:04 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
21:26:41 <James> James has joined #eo
21:30:54 <James_> James_ has joined #eo
21:40:06 <rjolly> rjolly has joined #eo
21:40:36 <shawn> shawn has joined #eo
21:44:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #eo
21:46:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eo
21:46:49 <Sharron> trackbot, start meeting
21:46:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:46:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3694
21:46:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
21:46:54 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
21:46:54 <trackbot> Date: 14 November 2016
21:46:57 <James_> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/H299QZZGZ#/screens/203897923
21:47:12 <Susan> Susan has joined #eo
21:47:28 <Susan> Present+ Susan
21:47:42 <Sharron> present+ Sharron
21:48:05 <shawn> zakim,  who is on the phone
21:48:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', shawn
21:48:09 <shawn> zakim,  who is on the phone?
21:48:09 <Zakim> Present: Susan, Sharron
21:48:23 <shawn> present+  eric, Robert, James, Chris
21:48:28 <shawn> present+ shawn
21:48:33 <shawn> zakim,  who is on the phone?
21:48:33 <Zakim> Present: Susan, Sharron, eric, Robert, James, Chris, shawn
21:48:45 <James_> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/H299QZZGZ#/screens/203897923
21:51:48 <Sharron> Impressions: strong, clean neat, professional, authoritative, stable, corporate
21:51:58 <Sharron> ...warmth despite the blue
21:52:27 <Sharron> ...Planning and Managing treatment of icon
21:52:49 <Sharron> ...is there an accent color outside the blue
21:53:02 <Sharron> ...what will be the graphic treatment
21:53:42 <Sharron> ...create style guide for going forward
21:54:17 <Sharron> James: Need to list the componenets of a style guide so Alicia can work on it. Can use it to follow as we add new images.
21:54:25 <Sharron> ...what is the font?
21:54:37 <Sharron> James: Open Sans
21:59:09 <Sharron> Impressions: looks like documentation, could introduce something more interesting, not engaging
21:59:45 <Sharron> ...the icons are great, but would need them on other pages
22:00:46 <Sharron> ...is it possible to have an icon on all pages?
22:00:52 <Sharron> ...a logo?
22:01:15 <Sharron> Eric: Having the corporate design discussion would delay things too much.
22:02:14 <Sharron> ...move breadcrumbs out from top banner
22:04:23 <Sharron> Eric: for the subpage, left align rather than center
22:15:17 <James_> https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/H299QZZGZ#/screens/203897923
22:15:22 <yatil> ^^Brent
22:15:56 <Brent> present+ Brent
22:18:02 <Sharron> Eric: Next steps - first, get IA work complete, then get Mobile First solution for text resizing as well;
22:19:18 <Sharron> Shawn: demos difference between exisiting WAI site and new design. Default font size is too small
22:20:03 <Sharron> Eric: Err on the side of larger fonts
22:21:04 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
22:25:14 <Sharron> Eric: we like color palette, header (bar the breadcrumbs), authoritative,
22:25:26 <Sharron> ...really really like the icons
22:26:18 <Sharron> Shawn: Concerend that having in page nav on the left will confuse people who are used to that being the site navigation
22:27:06 <Sharron> Eric: Can float page nav right
22:28:24 <Sharron> ...and another thing we should tell her is that we have Suite navigation in some cases, an element with 4 or 5 pages or componenets.
22:28:26 <Brent> s/Concerend/Concerned
22:28:58 <Brent> s/componenets/components
22:29:25 <shawn> q+ to say icons now
22:29:48 <Sharron> Chris: like the direction in general but we need user testing to validate some of these assumptions
22:30:18 <Sharron> Shawn: and we are unanimipous in liking the icons, is Alicia up for doing more of those?
22:31:08 <rjolly> s/unanimipous/unanimous
22:31:52 <shawn> q+ to iconography reinforce categories
22:32:03 <Sharron> Eric: It would be great to have an icon for at least the overview pages that provides some whimsys well s the authrotative.
22:32:44 <Sharron> Shawn: and can use iconography to reinforce relationships, groupings
22:32:47 <shawn> ack shawn
22:32:47 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say icons now and to iconography reinforce categories
22:32:49 <Brent> +1 to iconography throughout for categories and organization.
22:33:17 <Brent> Visuals are very powerful for intuitiveness
22:33:35 <Sharron> s/whimsys well s the authrotative/whimsy as well as the authoratative stance
22:34:36 <Sharron> Shawn: Get Involved at the bottom?
22:34:53 <yatil> q+ to say get involved -> Github -> Working Groups ect.
22:35:18 <shawn> q+ to say pub;ic image
22:35:35 <Sharron> Eric: we can see after we have done some work on the IA
22:36:02 <rjolly> ack yatil
22:36:02 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say get involved -> Github -> Working Groups ect.
22:36:14 <shawn> ack me
22:36:14 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say pub;ic image
22:36:26 <yatil> s/pub;ic/public/
22:37:03 <Sharron> Shawn: Also need to be open and let people know doors are open. Need to convey that we welcome partiicpation
22:40:17 <rjolly> s/partiicpation/participation
22:40:27 <yatil> Eric: Maybe we can introduce a box floating right that gets inserted into the content to get involved… also we can introduce a cookie that only shows that message every couple of weeks?
22:40:31 <yatil> q+
22:41:09 <yatil> q-
22:43:24 <Sharron> scribe: Sharron
22:43:47 <Sharron> Robert: does she need more info about the icon as connective tissue?
22:44:18 <Sharron> Shawn: yes but we need more input from IA before we can develop that.
23:10:22 <rjolly_> rjolly_ has joined #eo
23:14:39 <Susan> Susan has joined #eo
23:21:48 <shawn> q+ to say content analysis
23:22:54 <shawn> q+ to say https://github.com/w3c/wai-website-design/issues/17
23:23:59 <shawn> ack me
23:23:59 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say content analysis and to say https://github.com/w3c/wai-website-design/issues/17
23:29:15 <shawn> shawn: I just don't want Charlotte to waste time. It seems it would be best for us to do some cooperative work ahead of time.