<ed__> +present Ed

<scribe> scribe: manu

JayJ: I am one of the founders of People's Coupons, also do work with JITC and GS1, project on mobile redemption. Asked by JITC to be on here to gathering information from the grocery/manufacturer side.

<ltoth> Agenda • Introductions • Review Charter • Review Discussion Topics • Timelines

Administrivia

ltoth: We scribe everything on IRC and manage the speaker queue through IRC. Please join.
... q+ is how you get on the queue
... Welcome, this is the kickoff meeting for Digital Offers.
... My name is Linda Toth, I work for Conexxus.
... We have a number of new folks here - quick introductions. Name, title, and company interest.

Austin_Skaggs: Hi, my name is Austin Skaggs, VP of Marketing for PDI. Backoffice for retail/petroleum.

Bob_Burke: Hi Bob Burke with Koupon Media, coupons in retail and coupon space.

Brian_Russell: Brian Russell, work for Verifone's Petroleum division. Interested in POS and petroleum and digital offers.

Chuck_Ryan: I work for Royal Farms in northeast/midatlantic, 170+ c-stores.

dezell: I work for Verifone, we are trying to collaborate with players who have the new digital wallets on the scene. Cellphone-based devices, etc. I think everyone knows who those companies are. Conexxus Mobile Standard 2.0, moving quickly in petro. I'm also a conexxus board member and work with Linda. I work at NACS at the W3C where I co-chair the Web Payments Interest Group, that group is attempting to create Working Groups to enable web payments,

such as this group. We want to promote this work and not hinder anything in this area.

Ed_Collupuy: I'm a consultant w/ W. Capra. I have many years of experience as retailer in grocery and supermarket. I've been involved w/ several NACS technology initiatives. Help folks out w/ digital offers, thanks to Austin and Chuck that accepted invitation to join the CG, really appreciate it.

Kylie_Davies: Hi Kylie Davies, fuel retail for Accenture, working w/ Simon Stocks on IFSF, standardizing digital offers. Interested in Web Applications and how it links to retailer.

JayJ: On here on behalf of JICC, GS1, ACP, operating in grocery space, developing GS1 standards on mobile redemption. Thank you for inviting me.

<dlongley> manu: My name is Manu Sporny, CEO of Digital Bazaar, we've been involved with the Web Payments work at W3C for a while now, also launched a new initiative called the Verifiable Claims work and hope to help with Digital Offers. Our company is creating mobile wallet solutions with credentials and payments, etc.

Simon_Stocks: Hi, Simon stocks, chairman of IFSF - European equivalent of Conexxus, we work on standards for service stations and other areas, primarily in Europe and some conections into Asia/China.

<ed__> noting my company name as W. Capra

Simon_Stock: We want to incorporate work on digital offers in our own work in petro and c-store.

Steven_Gilford: I'm with Inmar, recent member of W3C and Conexxus, happy to participate and contribute in any way that we can.

Dave_Longley: CTO of Digital Bazaar, technology company that works on solutions in identity and payments space. We're interested in digital offers as a part of our solution.

Review Draft Charter

<ltoth> https://www.w3.org/community/digitaloffers/digital-offers-community-group-charter/

Draft Charter ^^^

ltoth: You can join that group here - https://www.w3.org/community/digitaloffers/join
... The charter talks about our goals and scope, deliverables of the work and other dependencies, liasons of other organizations that we want to include.
... We are going to have a couple of weeks of time to get feedback, if anyone wants to provide feedback now, we could go through this together.

Linda reviews goals of CG.

ltoth: This encompasses all of the things you can do on a digital device - it's all encompassing.

Linda reviews the Scope of Work.

Study the digital offers ecosystem to understand technology barriers to the full potential of digital offers on the Web (including access from mobile devices).

Identify and prioritize opportunities to lower these barriers.

Analyze what enhancements to the Web would contribute to solutions.

Explore solutions by incubating technical work that might form the basis of future W3C standards.

Linda reviews Use Cases

When launched, the Community Group is expected to discuss a large number of use cases, including from a variety of industry segments and regions of the world. However, to make progress, the Community Group should rapidly prioritize use cases, according to a number of criteria, including:

Who is participating in the group, including both the parties with the best understanding of the use cases and implementers of potential solutions.

The opportunity for interoperability gains.

The Digital Offers Task Force of the Web Payments Interest Group has written a number of initial discussion topics. This list is not intended to limit the scope of topics that the Community Group may consider.

Initial discussion topics can be found here: https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/DigitalOffers2016#Initial_Discussion_Topics

ltoth: Things that are out of scope:

The group will not develop a specification for coupon identifiers (e.g., represented through bar codes or QR codes).

ltoth: Deliverables are:

A report describing a series of (prioritized) industry use cases.

An analysis of what standards (existing or new in the ecosystem as a whole) might help address those use cases.

Optionally: Community Group reports to experiment with how to address the use cases.

ltoth: Dependencies and Liasons:

Merchants and merchant associations

Consumer packaged goods (CPGs) companies that distribute coupons

Coupon aggregators

Digital wallet / payment app developers

Payment solution providers (e.g., POS vendors, shopping cart providers)

Standards bodies involved in digital offers (e.g., ARTS, Conexxus, GS1, JICC)

<dlongley> manu: I just wanted to point a liaison we may have overlooked in creating the charter and that's the Verifiable Claims group. There are a number of us that straddle both of these groups and the hope is that some of the VC work can be the foundational tech for this group.

<dlongley> linda: Can you explain Verifiable Claims for new members?

<dlongley> manu: VC has been developed over the past 4 years, heavily incubated over 2. We're trying to make expressing things like digital driver's licenses, etc. easier and be done over the Web, same tech can apply to loyalty cards, digital offers, and so on. The hope is to piggypack on that other group to save effort in this gruop.

<dlongley> linda: Any questions related to VC or questions/comments on the charter?

Steven: I noticed rebates is not listed, is that not included?

<sjs1205> Most of the participants are from North America is there any intention to get wider input

ltoth: It's not specifically excluded, but we didn't specifically include it. We can include it if necessary.
... Is a rebate done in a transaction or after the fact?

Steven: Traditionally, after the fact.

Bob: That's our experience too.

<dlongley> no reason a technology solution can't reference a rebate in the transaction and then it would be handled later

Ed: I was wonder, to Stevens point, consumer rebates, not retailer rebates, or is it both?

Steven: Consumer

ltoth: The fact that it doesn't happen in the transaction, do we need to consider that?

Ed: The potential for a rebate to show up and accept it?

<dlongley> manu: Just as a quick note -- we are working on a digital wallet. We would like to be able to store things like rebates as VC in the wallet, so we would like it to be in scope.

ltoth: Anything else on the charter before we move on?

<ltoth> *simon stocks

Simon: My question is - most participants are from North America, any intention to take wider input?

ltoth: Absolutely

dezell: The co-chair of the group is from Deutsche Telekom. We'd like more international participation, however.

Simon: I can get in touch with Joerg, and are willing to help in any way that we can.

<dlongley> W3C is worldwide, definitely don't want the work here to be North American focused only

ltoth: I think one of the things we'll discuss is who is missing. We'll take that into account.

<ltoth> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/DigitalOffers2016#Initial_Discussion_Topics

Initial Discussion Topics

https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/DigitalOffers2016#Initial_Discussion_Topics

ltoth: We have focused on the following three to start:

Management and Distribution -- how coupons are managed and made available to users

User Action -- how users clip, store, review, and redeem coupons (or pair an offer with a buy action) during a transaction

Settlement -- how merchants and coupon distributors settle

ltoth: Under management and distribution, we have -

Decentralized Lookup

Distribution to Mobile Devices without App Installation

Controls on Distribution

ltoth: for user action, we have:

Interoperable Clip and Save

Redemption of Offers Received "Out of App"

Streamlined Redemption during Standardized Checkout

Multi-tender Payments - Combining Coupons and Money

Controls on Redemption

ltoth: And for Settlement, we have

Near Real-Time Funding

Ability to Distinguish Funding Sources

<StevenG> U

Simon: You mentioned in the discussion topics about merchants wanting to push offers, a lot of the offers come off of product, CPGs will be sending offers out to their customers.
... If merchant hasn't signed up for the program, they don't have infrastructure, there is a problem. There has to be some way to enable merchants to sign up.
... You also can't have public internet access on a PoS that's also handling cards.

DavidEzell: Simon, you're raising topics that are important to Verifone, we have different ways of managing technology so we can get around that. What we're trying to get around here is ensure that infrastructure around that system is firm and valid.
... Your point about merchants, with W3C, what we're shooting for is for the standard to make its way into the browser world, there will be less of a hurdle to be signed up for a particular program. Conexxuss' mobile standard has to be coded into how to use that standard. This is part of the point, help remove that hurdle you outlined.

JayJ: Can you explain the decentralized line that you were talking about a second ago?

ltoth: Briefly, one way of determining if a coupon applies to a product is to look it up in an aggregation service. Not all merchants rely on these databases, useful for these merchants to communicate directly with CPG companies, what is necessary for coupon distributors to connect up w/ merchants directly?

JayJ: The only thing JICC, ACP, GS1 are moving toward centralized database for 8112 offers. That's a different type of barcode, GS1, not the ones used currently. new certification. The Standards we're creating require centralized lookup. That's only for grocery items, mainly because they're so bifurcated throughout the system.

ltoth: Jay, I think what we were trying to capture is the fact that petro doesn't do family codes, so if the solution for digital offer going forward is to integrate w/ a database service, but if it requires a local copy, does it require a database that's updated locally, or something that you interface to in the cloud when you're managing digital offers.

JayJ: Currently, it's in the cloud, but trying to develop some local databases as well. GS1 is so complicated, so many different fields, petro doesn't always do family codes. Trying to make it an easier process that doesn't have to hold so many bits of data in GS1, redemption would become easier at that point.

ltoth: Can you provide additional language for that use case?

JayJ: 8112 is different from offers and rebates and loyalty, so it's considerably different, new category that's going to be coming out in next six months to a year.

ltoth: Maybe you can educate this group on that?

JayJ: It's still in it's infancy, we're settling on a few things, happy to bring that to the group.

dezell: Question about our direction, you asked Jay to specify a use case, but we're talking about problem statements. I think what we want are use cases.
... The problem statements are supposed to help you think about the use cases. Define the problem to be solved, then demonstrate the use case that solves the problem.
... yes, we're looking for a use case, but problem statements are different.

JayJ: I'm hoping to look at this a bit more deeply, threw up a red flag when I heard it.

dezell: No, this is good, thanks.

Administration of the Group

ltoth: Does this time generally work for folks on this call?
... Was anyone not able to join us because of day/time?

dezell: Because we're self selecting we're on the call because we cold be on the call. This may be a tough time for our european friends.

simon: Not bad for the UK, but as we go further east, it'll be worse. It's 3pm in UK, 4pm CET, 5pm Eastern. Friday afternoon, a lot of people won't be hanging around.

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to comment on times

<dezell_> +1 to one hour earlier - it would facilitate asia, too.

ShaneM: I agree with Simon, an hour earlier would be better.
... Hi, Shane McCarron, I'm with Spec Ops, we're a non-profit that helps accelerate things like payments, verifiable claims, and digital offers.

dezell: I wanted to +1 to an hour earlier.
... Our colleagues in the Far East may be able to join.
... Maybe thursday?

bob: a different day during the week would be fine - 9am works fine.

Simon: Friday is Sunday for some countries.

Brian: Thursday is a really busy day for Conexxus meetings.

<ShaneM> good point simon... sundown is an issue in many countries on Friday

<ShaneM> +1 on a doodle poll

<dlongley> +1 to a doodle poll ... would capture people who want to participate vs. those we're guessing may want to

dezell: Are folks on the call used to doodle polls? We need folks to participate in the poll.

ltoth: Frequency of meetings
... We have holidays and Christmas coming up

Jay: I'm fine w/ Friday, meeting weekly.

ltoth: Maybe we can meet every other week until the 1st, intially it's oging to be a lot of review, that would give people time to do the work inbetween calls

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to meet biweekly

<dlongley> manu: +1 to meet every other week, primarily because we'll be doing so much review and people will need to be reading lots of stuff already put out there. Because of that, and the holiday season, peek retail season, etc. it will be hard to stick to a weekly schedule.

<ShaneM> +1 to every other week this calendar year

<dlongley> +1 every other week

Ed: Yep, agree w/ Manu on every other week and ability to get this work done along w/ everything else... go to end of year, see what progress we make.

Bob: Agree w/ Ed

ltoth: So, every other week through end of the year.

<scribe> ACTION: Linda and David to present doodle poll to group on meeting time. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/04-digitaloffers-minutes.html#action01]

ltoth: We need to make sure problem statements reflect what problem we're trying to solve. See if we're missing anything, see if we want to clarify.
... We should review at next meeting. There is a mailing list. We can do stuff offline via mailing list.

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digitaloffers/

public-digitaloffers@w3.org

ltoth: The CG launched on October 10th, the group kick off meeting was today.

dezell: If you suffer from email fatigue, you can safely scan email and delete it and always find it at the link.
... this will help keep your inbox uncluttered - a friendly hint for those that are new to this situation.

ltoth: Filter the email from the list to a folder.

dezell: When is our next meeting?

ltoth: We need to get that out to the group.
... Let's meet on the 18th, 10am ET

<sjs1205> I won't be able to make 18th as this is IFSF board meeting - will discuss with Kylie

Email from Microsoft asking for digital coupon use cases: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-comments/2016Nov/0019.html

<dlongley> manu: So there is one topic I wanted to make sure everyone was aware of before we hung up. There's a massive discussion around VC about whether the work will transition from a WG and what it will look like. We've had memebrs like Microsoft and Google come forward and ask for examples from the payment space, specifically Digital Offers/Coupons, etc. Microsoft has basically said, "Do we think VC are a good platform to build digital coupons and

<dlongley> offers on top of?" I'll put a link to the email into IRC.

<dezell_> send comments on the usefulness of Verifiable Claims for Digitaloffers to: public-webpayments-comments@w3.org

<dlongley> manu: Like I said, the problem with this right now is many folks in the group aren't up to speed, but there is a decision that will be made in a couple weeks that could really impact this group. My question is, how do we bring people up to speed on this in the time frame and do we do/we not do a response?

<dlongley> dezell_: For those of you who are aware of how VC could help with offers. I'll give two specific use cases. There may be others. One is the verification that a coupon is only being used by someone who is legally able to do so. Some coupons say minors can't use them, etc. This is one of the things that could VC help with. The other is reuse and limited use of coupons, time life of them. If there's a VC network that supports all the other kinds of

<dlongley> claims it coudl support that a coupon is valid as well. It has the potential to provide a general purpose framework for validating things.

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-comments/2016Nov/0019.html

<dlongley> dezell_: I put up there the email address where the community can give support for VC.

<dlongley> dezell_: I was going to try and paste the link to that archive, I'll do that in a minute. You can look at what other people have been saying too.

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about help w/ Verifiable Claims and to

<dezell_> Archive for comments on VC: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-comments/

<dlongley> manu: Yeah, just to follow up, the reason that this is important is because Google and Microsoft have said that they aren't convinced that the VC work has been incubated long enough or with the problem statement and they really want to understand if people think digital couponing is interesting. They haven't heard from any of us, but clearly we're here. There will be a decision for whether or not that work proceeds in a couple weeks and that

<dlongley> could have an impact on this group.

<dlongley> manu: We want people from the industry to come forward and say they have a big digital coupon problem we're trying to solve (if that's true about you) ... and if you're actively engaged in this space and have a problem and want to help out, please respond or talk with me to get more details.

<scribe> ACTION: LInda to schedule next meeting for 18th at 10am Eastern. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/04-digitaloffers-minutes.html#action02]

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Found Scribe: manu
Inferring ScribeNick: manu
Present: Linda_Toth Chuck_Ryan Bob_Burke Kylie_Davies Ed_Collupuy Brian_Russell Simon_Stocks David_Ezell Jay_Johnson <bob> Austin_Skaggs Brian dezell dlongley ShaneM
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digitaloffers/2016Nov/0000.html
Got date from IRC log name: 04 Nov 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/11/04-digitaloffers-minutes.html
People with action items: david linda

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