IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2016-09-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:50 [Zakim]
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14:59:52 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
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ok, trackbot
14:59:53 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:53 [trackbot]
Date: 15 September 2016
14:59:59 [patrick_h_lauke]
present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:00:06 [patrick_h_lauke]
running a few mins late be right there
15:00:15 [Kathy]
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15:01:05 [jeanne]
present+ jeanne
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15:04:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
M1 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:05:12 [patrick_h_lauke]
TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/
15:05:38 [Kim]
Agenda + M1 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:05:39 [Kim]
Agenda + M3 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m2.md
15:05:41 [Kim]
Agenda + Next Steps – next week no regular meeting due to TPAC, next meeting Thursday, September 29
15:05:58 [Kim]
Topic: TPAC
15:06:05 [patrick_h_lauke]
correction on the second link - it should be https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
15:06:27 [Kim]
Kathy: hour and a half session – overview so people can see the whole
15:07:19 [patrick_h_lauke]
Topic: M1
15:07:35 [patrick_h_lauke]
https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
15:07:59 [chriscm]
present+ chriscm
15:08:38 [chriscm]
kim: How do you feel about the text for M1?
15:08:47 [chriscm]
Kathy: looks good
15:09:10 [Kim]
present+Kim
15:09:11 [chriscm]
Patrick: Very high level, of course things will work with pointer.
15:09:39 [patrick_h_lauke]
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#keyboard-operation
15:10:40 [chriscm]
Patrick: Only interested in actual functionality than how the person is moving the pointer.
15:10:42 [Jatin]
present +Jatin
15:10:54 [marcjohlic]
present+ marcjohlic
15:11:04 [chriscm]
Kathy: The SC text "for instance" should be in the description.
15:11:25 [chriscm]
Kathy: We prbably want a link to glossary terms.
15:12:36 [chriscm]
Kim: Under description it says "ToDo". (Patrick: that will be removed)
15:12:48 [chriscm]
Kim: remove the word "situations"
15:14:04 [chriscm]
Marc: Do we need specific timings, or is that not applicable?
15:14:23 [chriscm]
Marc: All functionality can be operated by pointer inputs without specific timings?
15:14:45 [chriscm]
Patrick: I talk about the timing stuff in M3, which is Pointer Gestures. Probably not necessary to add it here as well.
15:15:07 [chriscm]
Kathy: Benefits, no assistive devices that mimic mouse input, and not just keyboard input.
15:15:44 [chriscm]
Kathy: Anything not usable with mouse would actually be blocked on such an AT.
15:17:29 [chriscm]
Marc: Also under benefits, helps users of devices without a physical keyboard.
15:19:24 [chriscm]
Kim: Right now it's "Ensuring that all functionality can be used by pointer input"
15:21:03 [chriscm]
Kim/Patrick: [ Interesting editorial discussion ]
15:21:24 [chriscm]
Kim: Testability looks good to me, any comments...
15:21:53 [chriscm]
Kathy: I think the stuff you have in brackets should be put in as a note or a technique.
15:25:53 [chriscm]
Kim: Is this one set?
15:26:22 [chriscm]
Marc: Do we need to find justification/evidence? The benefit is clear, do we need supporting evidence?
15:26:52 [chriscm]
Kathy: If we need it, we have it.
15:27:59 [chriscm]
Kim: We could say: " According to direct experience of those in the group"
15:28:45 [Kathy]
http://www.rehabmart.com/product/adapted-wireless-computer-mouse-interface-40391.html?gclid=COSB7evXkc8CFYpkhgodgz0FNQ
15:28:59 [chriscm]
Kathy: There were some devices that were no longer mimicking keyboard events, but mouse pointer events.
15:29:29 [patrick_h_lauke]
https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/template.md
15:29:47 [marcjohlic]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/wiki/Proposals-for-new-Success-Criteria
15:30:58 [chriscm]
Patrick: we could write something very generic, like "this is obvious" or "from our experience"
15:31:13 [chriscm]
Kim: I think it is useful to have an example so it's "picturable"
15:31:16 [Kathy]
present: Kathy
15:33:12 [chriscm]
Kim: What would an example be?
15:33:30 [chriscm]
Patrick: You can't summon the iOS Keybaord at an arbitrary point, you have to be in an editable text field.
15:33:46 [chriscm]
Kim: There's a user that uses an onscreen keyboard, what would cause a user to be stuck?
15:35:26 [chriscm]
Patrick: They can't ask for the onscreen keyboard, so if events are relied on to happen in a specific way to focus elements, and the onscreen keyboard isn't requested, they couldn't get the keyboard attached to the screen.
15:35:40 [chriscm]
Kim: Could you add a specific example where if this wasn't done, this wouldn't be accessible.
15:36:34 [chriscm]
Kim: Any other comments on this?
15:41:32 [patrick_h_lauke]
Topic: M3 https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
15:41:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
Kim: as many people left, maybe we take a high level view
15:41:57 [patrick_h_lauke]
and raise it next time
15:42:23 [patrick_h_lauke]
Kim: question: if one is pointer and one pointer gestures is this going to be confusing?
15:42:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
I guess this is a Q for Jeanne
15:43:22 [patrick_h_lauke]
Jeanne: one-word short handles is a problem, but WCAG WG doesn't agree with me
15:43:29 [patrick_h_lauke]
that's something the WG will debate
15:43:31 [patrick_h_lauke]
endlessly
15:45:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
Patrick: for context, the previous SC (M1) generically says "must work with a pointer", this one (M3) goes further and says "but also don't require precise/timed gestures"
15:46:01 [jeanne]
s/endlessly//
15:46:04 [patrick_h_lauke]
Jeanne: both are at Level A, so that may be a problem, but we'll leave that discussion for the WG
15:46:21 [patrick_h_lauke]
Kim: so M3 means "NO pointer gestures"
15:46:33 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
15:46:37 [patrick_h_lauke]
Patrick: agree, changing to "NO pointer gestures" makes this clearer
15:47:09 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:48:42 [patrick_h_lauke]
Kim: the notes currently in the SC Text would make good examples for the Description if expanded upon
15:49:06 [patrick_h_lauke]
Patrick: removing the TODO bits, which shows me that I actually need to generate some benefits and testability
15:49:13 [patrick_h_lauke]
so more content writing required here
15:58:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
[high-level discussion, minor tweaks, need to cross-reference this with the "Touch with AT" SC to make sure this is clearly exempted]
16:01:30 [patrick_h_lauke]
Patrick: by the way, all SCs already reviewed by the group (as per wiki) are now also in GitHub https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/tree/gh-pages/SCs
16:03:32 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
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