IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2016-09-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:59:48 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:59:48 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-irc
- 14:59:50 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:59:50 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:59:52 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
- 14:59:52 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot
- 14:59:53 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 14:59:53 [trackbot]
- Date: 15 September 2016
- 14:59:59 [patrick_h_lauke]
- present+ patrick_h_lauke
- 15:00:06 [patrick_h_lauke]
- running a few mins late be right there
- 15:00:15 [Kathy]
- Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y
- 15:01:05 [jeanne]
- present+ jeanne
- 15:01:21 [marcjohlic]
- marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
- 15:03:27 [Jatin]
- Jatin has joined #mobile-a11y
- 15:04:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
- M1 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
- 15:05:12 [patrick_h_lauke]
- TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/
- 15:05:38 [Kim]
- Agenda + M1 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
- 15:05:39 [Kim]
- Agenda + M3 - https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m2.md
- 15:05:41 [Kim]
- Agenda + Next Steps – next week no regular meeting due to TPAC, next meeting Thursday, September 29
- 15:05:58 [Kim]
- Topic: TPAC
- 15:06:05 [patrick_h_lauke]
- correction on the second link - it should be https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
- 15:06:27 [Kim]
- Kathy: hour and a half session – overview so people can see the whole
- 15:07:19 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Topic: M1
- 15:07:35 [patrick_h_lauke]
- https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m1.md
- 15:07:59 [chriscm]
- present+ chriscm
- 15:08:38 [chriscm]
- kim: How do you feel about the text for M1?
- 15:08:47 [chriscm]
- Kathy: looks good
- 15:09:10 [Kim]
- present+Kim
- 15:09:11 [chriscm]
- Patrick: Very high level, of course things will work with pointer.
- 15:09:39 [patrick_h_lauke]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#keyboard-operation
- 15:10:40 [chriscm]
- Patrick: Only interested in actual functionality than how the person is moving the pointer.
- 15:10:42 [Jatin]
- present +Jatin
- 15:10:54 [marcjohlic]
- present+ marcjohlic
- 15:11:04 [chriscm]
- Kathy: The SC text "for instance" should be in the description.
- 15:11:25 [chriscm]
- Kathy: We prbably want a link to glossary terms.
- 15:12:36 [chriscm]
- Kim: Under description it says "ToDo". (Patrick: that will be removed)
- 15:12:48 [chriscm]
- Kim: remove the word "situations"
- 15:14:04 [chriscm]
- Marc: Do we need specific timings, or is that not applicable?
- 15:14:23 [chriscm]
- Marc: All functionality can be operated by pointer inputs without specific timings?
- 15:14:45 [chriscm]
- Patrick: I talk about the timing stuff in M3, which is Pointer Gestures. Probably not necessary to add it here as well.
- 15:15:07 [chriscm]
- Kathy: Benefits, no assistive devices that mimic mouse input, and not just keyboard input.
- 15:15:44 [chriscm]
- Kathy: Anything not usable with mouse would actually be blocked on such an AT.
- 15:17:29 [chriscm]
- Marc: Also under benefits, helps users of devices without a physical keyboard.
- 15:19:24 [chriscm]
- Kim: Right now it's "Ensuring that all functionality can be used by pointer input"
- 15:21:03 [chriscm]
- Kim/Patrick: [ Interesting editorial discussion ]
- 15:21:24 [chriscm]
- Kim: Testability looks good to me, any comments...
- 15:21:53 [chriscm]
- Kathy: I think the stuff you have in brackets should be put in as a note or a technique.
- 15:25:53 [chriscm]
- Kim: Is this one set?
- 15:26:22 [chriscm]
- Marc: Do we need to find justification/evidence? The benefit is clear, do we need supporting evidence?
- 15:26:52 [chriscm]
- Kathy: If we need it, we have it.
- 15:27:59 [chriscm]
- Kim: We could say: " According to direct experience of those in the group"
- 15:28:45 [Kathy]
- http://www.rehabmart.com/product/adapted-wireless-computer-mouse-interface-40391.html?gclid=COSB7evXkc8CFYpkhgodgz0FNQ
- 15:28:59 [chriscm]
- Kathy: There were some devices that were no longer mimicking keyboard events, but mouse pointer events.
- 15:29:29 [patrick_h_lauke]
- https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/template.md
- 15:29:47 [marcjohlic]
- https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/wiki/Proposals-for-new-Success-Criteria
- 15:30:58 [chriscm]
- Patrick: we could write something very generic, like "this is obvious" or "from our experience"
- 15:31:13 [chriscm]
- Kim: I think it is useful to have an example so it's "picturable"
- 15:31:16 [Kathy]
- present: Kathy
- 15:33:12 [chriscm]
- Kim: What would an example be?
- 15:33:30 [chriscm]
- Patrick: You can't summon the iOS Keybaord at an arbitrary point, you have to be in an editable text field.
- 15:33:46 [chriscm]
- Kim: There's a user that uses an onscreen keyboard, what would cause a user to be stuck?
- 15:35:26 [chriscm]
- Patrick: They can't ask for the onscreen keyboard, so if events are relied on to happen in a specific way to focus elements, and the onscreen keyboard isn't requested, they couldn't get the keyboard attached to the screen.
- 15:35:40 [chriscm]
- Kim: Could you add a specific example where if this wasn't done, this wouldn't be accessible.
- 15:36:34 [chriscm]
- Kim: Any other comments on this?
- 15:41:32 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Topic: M3 https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m3.md
- 15:41:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Kim: as many people left, maybe we take a high level view
- 15:41:57 [patrick_h_lauke]
- and raise it next time
- 15:42:23 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Kim: question: if one is pointer and one pointer gestures is this going to be confusing?
- 15:42:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
- I guess this is a Q for Jeanne
- 15:43:22 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Jeanne: one-word short handles is a problem, but WCAG WG doesn't agree with me
- 15:43:29 [patrick_h_lauke]
- that's something the WG will debate
- 15:43:31 [patrick_h_lauke]
- endlessly
- 15:45:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Patrick: for context, the previous SC (M1) generically says "must work with a pointer", this one (M3) goes further and says "but also don't require precise/timed gestures"
- 15:46:01 [jeanne]
- s/endlessly//
- 15:46:04 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Jeanne: both are at Level A, so that may be a problem, but we'll leave that discussion for the WG
- 15:46:21 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Kim: so M3 means "NO pointer gestures"
- 15:46:33 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:46:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
- 15:46:37 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Patrick: agree, changing to "NO pointer gestures" makes this clearer
- 15:47:09 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 15:48:42 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Kim: the notes currently in the SC Text would make good examples for the Description if expanded upon
- 15:49:06 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Patrick: removing the TODO bits, which shows me that I actually need to generate some benefits and testability
- 15:49:13 [patrick_h_lauke]
- so more content writing required here
- 15:58:50 [patrick_h_lauke]
- [high-level discussion, minor tweaks, need to cross-reference this with the "Touch with AT" SC to make sure this is clearly exempted]
- 16:01:30 [patrick_h_lauke]
- Patrick: by the way, all SCs already reviewed by the group (as per wiki) are now also in GitHub https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/tree/gh-pages/SCs
- 16:03:32 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:03:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
- 16:07:33 [patrick_h_lauke]
- patrick_h_lauke has left #mobile-a11y
- 16:48:21 [shadi]
- shadi has joined #mobile-a11y
- 19:24:09 [shadi]
- shadi has joined #mobile-a11y
- 19:25:59 [shadi_]
- shadi_ has joined #mobile-a11y