See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: allanj
wayne: doesn't like blocks of text. wants all text
<laura> yes I will be
<laura> webex is having trouble starting
scott: blocks of text is a legacy of screen readers
wayne: when wcag says captions, were they talking about multimedia captions.
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
jim: seems specific, is there a way to abstract the icons, form field borders, etc.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
Jim: testability, should be 4.5:1 not 3:1
awk: how are icons and graphics
different.
... is there still exception for "logo"
laura: yes there should be.
awk: are we creating new, or rewording exiting
laura: should add exception clause.
awk: need to define icon vs
graphics that convey important information.
... what is important information.
laura: see coga def
jr: rephrase text - the presentation of visual elements (such as: form field borders, graphics, focus indicators) ...
awk: to open is a problem also. lean toward define crisply. No ambiguity.
wayne: important graphic - uml
diagram or any diagram, chart, etc.
... icon is our catch word for actionable graphics
awk: for diagrams and charts -
start to be difficult to have multiple color at 4.5:1...what is
the impact
... bar chart with 4 bars and colors with labels, ok
... line chart with 5 lines that intersect.
<erich_manser> could someone repost the Contrast link again, please? getting 'currently no text on page' msg
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
<JohnRochford> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
<ScottM> "Primary foreground and Primary background color must meet requirements..."
<ScottM> and...
<ScottM> "adjacent colors must meet requirements"
awk: is there value in breaking
apart the sc form controls, separate from graphics, etc.
... focus indicators at Level A
... pie charts 4.5:1 for adjacent colors is HARD. lots of push
back
<ScottM> Borders can be used to change adjacent colors
<AWK> "Color is not used as the only visual means of conveying information, indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual element"
<laura> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewWCAGEditRec/results#xq9
jim: this is really close.
<laura> From survey: Having colored slices in a pie chart even with sufficient contrast fails 1.4.1 Use of Color. Please add a statement that the slices also need to have differing patterns or text to differentiate them from each other. For example, at a given luminosity, red and green slices can pass minimum contrast requirements however for someone with red / green color blindness they will not know which is red or green and any reference to the "green" slice in the [CUT]
<laura> would lead to confusion or loss of information.
awk: adress the delta. if 141 is ok, then need to change the understating document to make clear about charts and graphs
<JohnRochford> Source of quote from Laura: Maureen Kraft, IBM
awk: if you have a graphic, can't
be color alone. doesn't say that the graphic has to meet
contrast.
... poor contast would pass if there were visual patterns on
the different colors
<ScottM> what if you can't tell the shape or pattern due to color contrast
jim: YIKES!! but true.
scott: easy to understand, but
hard to word.
... when I test...if I take the image, make it b/w if you can
still get meaning by shape or pattern, you are probably ok.
recap - pull out focus and form outline, add patterning to understanding document. add contrast of patterning to 1.4.3
<laura> 2.4.7: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2012/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120726/navigation-mechanisms-focus-visible.html
<ScottM> I like keeping related elements together
<ScottM> we should avoid stuffing too much into one SC
wayne: if you can't see the actionable image (left or right arrow) you don't know what you are doing
laura: operable, perceivable
awk: like idea "actionable" (icon
- arrows, toobar - cut, copy, paste, etc. ) complex color icons
may be difficult.
... outlook - reply button - a piece of the icon back arrow,
and has words associated with it.
<ScottM> The icon isn't critical as there is text
<ScottM> and there are parts of the icon that are ok and unique
awk: if back arrow meets contrast, does the rest of the button have to meet contrast
<ScottM> Outlook has lots of color contrast issues :)
<ScottM> Skype has more though :)
wayne: to operate the page you need your focus, form field, actionalble icons.
<JohnRochford> Gotta go. Ciao everyone.
laura: will recraft contrast (minimum) to remove graphic.
awk: have a modest proposal for graphics to get some feedback from wcag. here is user need,
<scribe> ACTION: jim to write SC for informational graphics, color, visual pattern, etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Write sc for informational graphics, color, visual pattern, etc [on Jim Allan - due 2016-09-15].
<ScottM> Poke the hive and see if the bees still live? :)
wayne: "a mechanism is available...", content puts obstacles in the way of the user making the information presentable.
<laura> I removed “graphics that convey important information” from https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
<ScottM> Authors (or users) don't always know what to do or if it is possible
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Capitalization
<laura> Notes on case conversion: http://rishida.net/blog/?p=1762
wayne: All caps is a big issue in blocks of text. a word here or there is not an issue.
scott: all caps not so much a low
vision issue. no easy mechanism. can use style to make all
caps. all lower case may be difficult to read.
... perhaps say - all style sheet to control capitalizaion of
blocks of text.
... CamelCase would be difficult to read with out camels.
... perhaps AAA. should prevent capitalization adjustments in
CSS. use capitalization as appropriate for the language.
<AWK> Are we saying that all-caps disproportionately affects LV users?
<AWK> If not, then this probably isn't a good SC candidate
wayne: some low vision folks do have problems with all caps.
<laura> I think I completed all of the Contrast (Minimum) changes.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
scott: why are we not including information icons. such as on dash boards.
jim: that should fall into the new SC on information and visual patterns, etc
scott: add actionable to short name.
<ScottM> lets let them hash on it for a while :)
<ScottM> woot woot
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: Shawn, Laura, JohnRochford, JimAllan, ScottM, Andrew(second_part), AWK, allanj, Wayne, Erich WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: AWK, Andrew(second_part), JimAllan, JohnRochford, Laura, ScottM, Shawn, allanj) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ JimAllan, Andrew(second_part), allanj Present: JimAllan JohnR Scott Wayne Laura Erich Regrets: shawn Found Date: 08 Sep 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items: jim[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]