IRC log of auto-wcag on 2016-09-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:04:48 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:04:48 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-auto-wcag-irc
- 14:05:15 [shadi]
- meeting: WCAG Accessibility Conformance Testing (ACT) Task Force
- 14:05:20 [shadi]
- chair: Wilco
- 14:05:24 [shadi]
- scribe: Shadi
- 14:06:16 [cpandhi]
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- 14:06:49 [shadi]
- present: Wilco_Fiers, Alistair_Garrison, Charu_pandhi, Jon_Gunderson, Mike_Scott, Rob_Fentress
- 14:07:25 [shadi]
- present+ shadi
- 14:08:21 [cpandhi]
- present+ Charu Pandhi
- 14:09:48 [jongund]
- Lori Lane
- 14:09:52 [jongund]
- Mike Scott
- 14:10:02 [shadi]
- present+ Lori_Lane
- 14:10:19 [shadi]
- present+ David_ONeill
- 14:10:56 [RobF]
- Robert Fentress, Virginia Tech, Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
- 14:11:13 [Wilco]
- 1) Tooling introduction next week
- 14:11:17 [shadi]
- present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 14:11:24 [Ryladog]
- Ryladog has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:11:31 [shadi]
- Topic: Tooling Introduction Next Week
- 14:11:44 [Ryladog]
- Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 14:11:47 [shadi]
- Wilco: task force tools setup
- 14:12:06 [shadi]
- ...want to have a call next week to introduce new participants to these tools
- 14:12:29 [Ryladog]
- Sorry I will be on a plane at that time
- 14:13:00 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/
- 14:13:10 [rdeltour]
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- 14:13:27 [Wilco]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/
- 14:13:49 [Wilco]
- shadi: please see the information on the conformanc etesting homepage
- 14:14:13 [shadi]
- present+ Romain_Deltour
- 14:14:24 [Lori]
- Lori has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:14:25 [mikescott]
- mikescott has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:14:32 [david]
- david has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:14:34 [Wilco]
- ) Meeting time for ACT TF
- 14:14:51 [shadi]
- Topic: Meeting Time for ACT TF
- 14:15:04 [shadi]
- Wilco: plan is to have weekly meetings for ACT TF
- 14:15:12 [shadi]
- ...need to determine possible times
- 14:15:28 [shadi]
- ...either Thursday at this time, or same time on Wednesday
- 14:15:49 [shadi]
- ...preference for Wednesday, to avoid rescheduling auto-WCAG
- 14:16:08 [shadi]
- Katie: Wednesday works for me
- 14:16:25 [shadi]
- Rob: when is auto-WCAG?
- 14:16:27 [Alistair]
- Wednesday +1
- 14:16:31 [shadi]
- Wilco: at this time
- 14:16:57 [shadi]
- Jon: can you describe the relationship between auto-WCAG and ACT TF?
- 14:17:13 [Wilco]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/
- 14:17:40 [shadi]
- Wilco: ACT TF will focus on standardizing the format of test rules
- 14:17:58 [shadi]
- ...and auto-WCAG will continue to develop test rules according to that new standard
- 14:18:14 [shadi]
- Rob: so auto-WCAG will develop a tool?
- 14:18:26 [shadi]
- Wilco: no, the rules that get implemented by tools
- 14:18:45 [shadi]
- Rob: how is that different to ACT TF?
- 14:19:01 [shadi]
- Wilco: auto-WCAG writes the tools, ACT TF standardizes the format
- 14:22:46 [shadi]
- Shadi: output of ACT TF is a standard of the rule format and the benchmark requirements
- 14:23:07 [shadi]
- ...and output of auto-WCAG is a repository of test rules
- 14:23:30 [shadi]
- ...those that pass the benchmark will be marked as such
- 14:23:48 [shadi]
- Wilco: back to agenda - hearing no objections to Wednesday
- 14:23:52 [shadi]
- Charu: fine for me
- 14:24:00 [shadi]
- David: fine too
- 14:24:04 [shadi]
- Lori: fine too
- 14:24:12 [shadi]
- Romain: probably fine too
- 14:24:41 [Wilco]
- 3) Sign up for ACT TF: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/participation
- 14:24:44 [shadi]
- RESOLUTION: ACT TF will meet Wednesday from end-September onwards
- 14:24:51 [shadi]
- Topic: Sign-Up for ACT TF
- 14:25:11 [shadi]
- Wilco: need to register for ACT TF
- 14:26:00 [Wilco]
- shadi: the act tf will be a taskforce of the wcag wg, who are responsible for the standardization. they will do the validation and vatting to ensure uniform interpretations
- 14:26:27 [Wilco]
- ... the work will start very soon. If you want to participate, you need to join WCAG WG
- 14:26:41 [Wilco]
- ... there are different procedures if you work for a w3c member organization or you don't
- 14:26:45 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/
- 14:27:02 [Wilco]
- ... on the homepage of the act tf there is information, go to 'how to participate'. there is a link to wcag wg participation
- 14:27:30 [Wilco]
- ... if you work for a w3c member, your ac rep need to asign you to the working group. You need to let Shadi know that you want to join
- 14:27:50 [Wilco]
- ... also let the chairs of the wcag wg know if you only want to participate in the taskforce
- 14:28:08 [Wilco]
- ... if you are not from a w3c member org, there is a procedure for invited experts
- 14:28:22 [Wilco]
- ... this is reviewed case by case, depending on what organization you are from
- 14:29:02 [Wilco]
- ... We will move all activities to the ACT TF, and auto-wcag will only keep working on test rules.
- 14:29:17 [Wilco]
- ... You are welcome to participate in both groups.
- 14:29:55 [Wilco]
- David: Do I need to reapply as a invited expert?
- 14:30:04 [Wilco]
- shadi: I'll need to check
- 14:30:23 [Wilco]
- shadi: Let us look separately
- 14:30:59 [Wilco]
- Charu: I have to get internal permission internally as well
- 14:31:41 [Wilco]
- shadi: if you have any questions please email me
- 14:32:04 [Wilco]
- rob: question, the auto-wcag group is a CG, and it does not go through the same process
- 14:32:06 [Wilco]
- shadi: yes
- 14:33:07 [Wilco]
- shadi: depending on your organization, you may need permission, but anyone can join a community group. It is much more open and easy to get involved
- 14:33:18 [Wilco]
- ... we want to do the rule development in that group
- 14:33:50 [shadi]
- Wilco: several people not on the call
- 14:34:00 [shadi]
- ...can I send them the links
- 14:34:16 [Ryladog_]
- Ryladog_ has joined #auto-wcag
- 14:34:18 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/#contribute
- 14:34:55 [Wilco]
- 4) TPAC meeting: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/wiki/Face-to-Face_Meetings
- 14:34:57 [shadi]
- Shadi: suggest that link from the homepage
- 14:35:06 [shadi]
- Topic: TPAC Meeting
- 14:35:15 [jongund]
- no
- 14:35:36 [shadi]
- Alistair: not attending in-person
- 14:36:36 [shadi]
- Wilco: goal is to work on the requirements document
- 14:37:00 [david]
- regrets, conflict with usbln conference
- 14:38:07 [Wilco]
- shadi: TPAC is from the 19th to the 23rd of september, you can still join until tomorrow
- 14:38:25 [Wilco]
- ... This is an informal meeting to interact with the WCAG WG to get the group started
- 14:38:40 [Wilco]
- ... We'll work on the requirements to help kickstart the work
- 14:38:58 [Wilco]
- ... there will be remote participation for ACT participants
- 14:39:23 [shadi]
- Topic: User Stories
- 14:39:28 [Wilco]
- 5) User stories: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/wiki/User_stories
- 14:40:21 [shadi]
- Wilco: approach to help evolve the requirements
- 14:40:31 [shadi]
- ...grouped user stories into specific groups
- 14:41:21 [shadi]
- [Wilco walks through the document]
- 14:42:44 [shadi]
- David: like the approach and categorization
- 14:42:54 [shadi]
- ...just nit-pick on #7
- 14:43:11 [shadi]
- ...think policy makers often don't get to that level of detail implied
- 14:43:46 [shadi]
- ...likely will refer to a body of work that their team is allowed or encouraged to use
- 14:43:57 [shadi]
- Katie: can leave it as-is
- 14:44:12 [shadi]
- ...but rephrase a "QA-lead following a policy"
- 14:44:26 [shadi]
- ...or such
- 14:44:44 [shadi]
- David: agree with Katie
- 14:45:36 [shadi]
- ...this work relates to policy but not policy
- 14:45:47 [shadi]
- ...agree that QA is where rubber will hit the road
- 14:46:06 [shadi]
- Wilco: agree, QA-lead is that I was thinking about
- 14:46:21 [shadi]
- Katie: but ensure to say "following a policy"
- 14:46:31 [shadi]
- ...QA lead not typically write policy
- 14:46:46 [shadi]
- David: mention of policy important, though
- 14:46:55 [shadi]
- ...want to encourage use of repository
- 14:47:14 [shadi]
- Alistair: this group is not designed to do that
- 14:47:33 [shadi]
- ...it is this group plus auto-WCAG
- 14:47:48 [shadi]
- ...suggest to drop out what is not being done by ACT TF
- 14:48:08 [shadi]
- Katie: think keep together
- 14:48:24 [shadi]
- ...large organizations will be thinking "what is the least I could do"
- 14:48:46 [shadi]
- Alistair: need to decide which tests are good or bad
- 14:48:49 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:49:15 [shadi]
- ...repository open to any contribution
- 14:49:28 [shadi]
- ...concerned about watch-keeping
- 14:49:49 [shadi]
- Wilco: put this in because expected this discussion
- 14:49:57 [shadi]
- ...want to clarify scope
- 14:50:21 [shadi]
- ...repository will be developed by ACT but who will maintain it is still open
- 14:50:35 [jongund]
- q+
- 14:50:42 [shadi]
- ...will decide which get included and which not
- 14:51:00 [shadi]
- ...will need at least a set of acceptance criteria to get to REC
- 14:51:15 [shadi]
- ...need to figure how to maintain that repository
- 14:51:30 [shadi]
- Alistair: did not realize that this is part of ACT
- 14:51:52 [shadi]
- ack jon
- 14:52:13 [shadi]
- Jon: had trouble with Techniques on which ones get in and which not
- 14:52:25 [shadi]
- ...some get left out for whatever reason
- 14:52:35 [shadi]
- ...hope that there will be a clear process
- 14:52:43 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:52:55 [shadi]
- ...to ensure transparency and reduce frustration
- 14:53:16 [Alistair]
- q+
- 14:53:17 [shadi]
- ...also to know which kind of rules should be submitted and which not
- 14:53:58 [shadi]
- Wilco: looking at how this is done for Techniques will be important
- 14:54:06 [shadi]
- ...will come later down the road
- 14:54:08 [shadi]
- ack al
- 14:54:20 [jongund]
- i need to leave a little early
- 14:54:22 [shadi]
- Alistair: still concerned about scalability
- 14:54:46 [shadi]
- ...took me a year to get a Technique accepted
- 14:54:55 [shadi]
- ...lots of discussion
- 14:54:59 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:55:14 [shadi]
- ...didn't realize we are going to vet rules
- 14:55:36 [shadi]
- Wilco: not sure we will come up with a set that is definitive
- 14:55:50 [shadi]
- ...but have a benchmarking deliverable
- 14:56:04 [shadi]
- ...still have to figure out exactly how
- 14:56:17 [shadi]
- ...will need to consider implementation time
- 14:56:34 [shadi]
- ...also manage the quantity of rules
- 14:56:58 [shadi]
- Alistair: talking about industry consortium rather than W3C group
- 14:57:05 [shadi]
- Wilco: don't see why
- 14:57:35 [shadi]
- Alistair: because knock-effect on entire industry
- 14:57:54 [shadi]
- Wilco: again, manufacturers can go beyond
- 14:58:08 [shadi]
- ...this is a minimum set that we all agree on
- 14:58:27 [shadi]
- ...document these agreed rules in a repository
- 14:58:31 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:58:34 [cpandhi]
- q+
- 14:58:41 [Alistair]
- q-
- 14:58:46 [shadi]
- ack cp
- 14:59:14 [shadi]
- Charu: reiterated that ACT will deliver framework, benchmark, and repository
- 14:59:33 [shadi]
- ...repository includes test rules developed by auto-WCAG
- 14:59:57 [shadi]
- Wilco: rules in the repository is at least test rules we agree on
- 15:00:33 [shadi]
- ....figure out how to maintain ACT after we've solved the acceptance
- 15:00:54 [shadi]
- Charu: trying to understand the relationship to auto-WCAG
- 15:01:21 [shadi]
- Wilco: auto-WCAG writing rules but rules can come from other organizations as well
- 15:01:35 [shadi]
- Topic: Closure
- 15:01:56 [shadi]
- Wilco: please use Discussion Page to comment on these
- 15:02:27 [shadi]
- Shadi: need to join ACT TF
- 15:02:41 [shadi]
- Rob: next auto-WCAG meeting?
- 15:03:02 [shadi]
- Wilco: 29 September
- 15:03:10 [shadi]
- ...same time
- 15:03:37 [shadi]
- Wilco: next ACT TF meeting next Thursday same time
- 15:26:24 [shadi_]
- shadi_ has joined #auto-wcag
- 16:30:56 [shadi_]
- rrsagent, make logs world
- 16:31:02 [shadi_]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:31:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-auto-wcag-minutes.html shadi_
- 16:31:21 [shadi_]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:31:21 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items