IRC log of aria on 2016-09-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:30:57 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:30:57 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-aria-irc
- 16:30:59 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 16:30:59 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aria
- 16:31:01 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 16:31:01 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 16:31:01 [Rich]
- chair: Rich
- 16:31:02 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
- 16:31:02 [trackbot]
- Date: 08 September 2016
- 16:31:04 [janina]
- present+ Janina
- 16:31:09 [joanie]
- present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
- 16:31:12 [Rich]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 16:31:23 [Rich]
- present+ Rich_Scwherdtfeger
- 16:31:52 [ShaneM]
- present+ ShaneM
- 16:31:57 [tzviya]
- tzviya has joined #aria
- 16:32:29 [MichaelC]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Sep/0021.html
- 16:32:38 [clown]
- present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 16:32:38 [MichaelC]
- present+ MichaelC
- 16:32:42 [tzviya]
- present+
- 16:32:52 [MichaelC]
- present+ Léonie
- 16:34:58 [janina]
- scribe: Janina
- 16:35:18 [bgaraventa1979]
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- 16:35:43 [janina]
- topic: Teleconference Length
- 16:35:53 [janina]
- rs: We've been ending early
- 16:36:00 [janina]
- rs: Much of our current work in subteams
- 16:36:01 [bgaraventa1979]
- present+ Bryan_Garaventa
- 16:36:12 [janina]
- rs: Any objection to reducing our call to 1 hour?
- 16:36:32 [janina]
- [people agreeing--no one disagreeing]
- 16:36:35 [ShaneM]
- +1
- 16:36:50 [clown]
- +1
- 16:37:00 [janina]
- mc: Suggest we should put out an announcement
- 16:37:05 [fesch]
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- 16:37:09 [janina]
- rs: So, cut up front? Or at the end?
- 16:37:18 [fesch]
- present+ 1
- 16:37:39 [JaeunKu]
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- 16:37:53 [janina]
- jd: Believe we may need the full 1.5 hours when we get to ARIA 2.0
- 16:38:07 [janina]
- jd: Suggest we start as now, but just adjourn early
- 16:38:10 [JaeunKu]
- present+JaEunJemmaKu
- 16:38:17 [JaeunKu]
- present+ JaEunJemmaKu
- 16:38:38 [janina]
- rs: OK.
- 16:38:53 [janina]
- mc: People need to know to update calendars.
- 16:39:46 [ShaneM]
- I don't care personally - whichever
- 16:40:52 [janina]
- rs: We'll move to 1 hour, and try to keep it there.
- 16:40:52 [jamesn]
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- 16:41:03 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:41:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-aria-minutes.html jamesn
- 16:41:41 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: ARIA telecon will continue to begin at 12:30 Boston, but end in 1 hour
- 16:42:04 [janina]
- jn: This takes a 2 hour block, because corporate meetings are based on the hour
- 16:42:47 [janina]
- REESOLUTION: Meeting will begin at 13:00 Boston
- 16:43:04 [ShaneM]
- s/REESOLUTION/RESOLUTION/
- 16:43:12 [janina]
- topic: Migrating to Github
- 16:43:31 [janina]
- rs: We have outstanding issues, some of which haven't been examined in some time
- 16:44:02 [jamesn]
- +1 to having all issues in 1 place
- 16:44:06 [MichaelC]
- q+
- 16:44:06 [janina]
- rs: Should we move from tracker to github going forward?
- 16:44:22 [janina]
- clown: Trackbot has some good commands integrated into irc
- 16:44:36 [janina]
- mc: That's why we didn't move previously
- 16:45:22 [janina]
- mc: If we move, we will lose the integration--though creating irc support should be possible
- 16:45:29 [janina]
- mk: Suggest just using tags
- 16:45:51 [janina]
- mk: I really like github milestones. Tracker doesn't have anything like that
- 16:45:53 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 16:46:13 [janina]
- Oops. I've lost audio HELP!
- 16:46:22 [JF]
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- 16:46:31 [ShaneM]
- ACTION: ShaneM to write an IRC bot that will query github
- 16:46:31 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2115 - Write an irc bot that will query github [on Shane McCarron - due 2016-09-15].
- 16:46:50 [JF]
- Present+ JF
- 16:47:59 [janina]
- rs: Suggest we might want to start by migrating ARIA 2 issues
- 16:48:02 [JF]
- +1 to staqrting at ARIA 2.0
- 16:48:25 [janina]
- rs: I'd like to start tiraging 2 issues during TPAC
- 16:48:38 [janina]
- mc: Another question on github ...
- 16:48:48 [janina]
- mc: Do we want an email list link for github
- 16:48:52 [janina]
- +1 to email link
- 16:49:53 [janina]
- mk: Do we want conversations logged for archival reasons?
- 16:50:08 [janina]
- mc: A subject of much discussion--but unresolved still
- 16:50:40 [ShaneM]
- q+ to mention that web payments does it with a separate mailing list for the issue relay
- 16:51:00 [ShaneM]
- +1 to having the issues sent to a (separate) mailing list
- 16:51:34 [ShaneM]
- ack ShaneM
- 16:51:34 [Zakim]
- ShaneM, you wanted to mention that web payments does it with a separate mailing list for the issue relay
- 16:53:16 [ShaneM]
- ACTION: ShaneM to figure out how github issue relaying works for webpayments
- 16:53:16 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2116 - Figure out how github issue relaying works for webpayments [on Shane McCarron - due 2016-09-15].
- 16:53:25 [janina]
- mc: When to transition?
- 16:53:30 [janina]
- rs: ARIA 2
- 16:53:49 [janina]
- rs: Let's triage first, then move to github
- 16:53:55 [janina]
- mc: Still good to have a target
- 16:54:00 [janina]
- rs: Year's end
- 16:54:46 [janina]
- topic: CfC results -- HTML-AAM
- 16:55:21 [Rich]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/83726/CfC_html-aam_2016-09-01/results
- 16:55:31 [ShaneM]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:55:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-aria-minutes.html ShaneM
- 16:56:01 [janina]
- rs: Prefers Web Platforms
- 16:56:12 [janina]
- rs: Think we have a decision
- 16:57:00 [janina]
- lw: Requesting quick decision email as important to Web Platforms process
- 16:57:25 [janina]
- topic: Name from Content
- 16:57:38 [janina]
- js: Found sometime to look at this
- 16:57:41 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1723-joseph/aria/aria.html#namefromauthor
- 16:58:12 [janina]
- clown: Don't need to list from author, as all roles support ...
- 16:58:19 [janina]
- rs: do we need to list?
- 16:58:21 [janina]
- clown: yes
- 16:58:38 [janina]
- clown: removed abstract roles from js
- 16:58:54 [janina]
- clown: Script still putting out some bad results
- 16:59:12 [janina]
- sm: Interesting
- 16:59:22 [LJWatson]
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- 16:59:40 [janina]
- sm: Don't recall, but know where to look. Did changes get merged?
- 16:59:41 [janina]
- jd: yes
- 16:59:43 [LJWatson]
- present+ LJWatson
- 17:00:17 [janina]
- rs: do we need to discuss further?
- 17:00:24 [janina]
- [crickets]
- 17:00:34 [janina]
- topic Testable Statements
- 17:00:55 [janina]
- rs: Asking Fred how it's going
- 17:01:13 [janina]
- fe: Run into an inssue as to how "not" should be represented
- 17:01:40 [janina]
- fe: Otherwise, OK. Looking to get the json and tables right
- 17:02:27 [ShaneM]
- <defined> for "exists", <undefined> for "not exists
- 17:02:35 [ShaneM]
- (for example)
- 17:03:39 [jcraig]
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- 17:04:23 [janina]
- fe: NOting we need to get whatever is meaningful to the particular platform into the table
- 17:04:34 [ShaneM]
- have "defaults" for column 3
- 17:04:38 [mck]
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- 17:05:35 [ShaneM]
- script needs to generate something sensible and predictable, but the script can do that when it creates the output. not worried
- 17:05:42 [janina]
- fe: We need to agree on how to represent "exist" and "don't exist"
- 17:05:53 [janina]
- fe: When can always transform if need later
- 17:06:14 [mck]
- present+ matt_king
- 17:06:24 [janina]
- fe: We should resolve on the thread, because I'm out after Tuesday as things stand
- 17:06:50 [janina]
- mc: Noted
- 17:06:55 [ShaneM]
- Note that I am happy to take on evolution of the perl if there is a transition period.
- 17:06:55 [jongund]
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- 17:07:09 [janina]
- topic: TPAC
- 17:07:17 [Rich]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016
- 17:07:24 [janina]
- rs: Note both APA and ARIA agendae
- 17:07:36 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 17:07:57 [janina]
- rs: Reviewing schedule
- 17:08:16 [JF]
- Q+
- 17:09:17 [janina]
- rs: Noting the Thursday 11:00-12:30 meeting on the lowlevel API
- 17:10:15 [tzviya]
- q+ to note that 11:00 on Thursday is the same time as Publishing Community meeting about A11y and Publishing
- 17:11:06 [janina]
- jf: Will we have telecon bridge?
- 17:11:17 [janina]
- rs: Yes, and dialin OK
- 17:11:31 [janina]
- mc: Will update the Wiki
- 17:11:34 [Rich]
- q?
- 17:11:35 [janina]
- ack jf
- 17:12:01 [janina]
- ts: 11:00 slot also same as Judy & George at Dpub meeting
- 17:12:07 [janina]
- rs: Can't move, unfortunately
- 17:12:56 [janina]
- rs: Would dpub want some of the 16:00-18:00 time?
- 17:13:18 [janina]
- ts: Let me respond later
- 17:13:43 [janina]
- rs: Friday with TAG in the morning, then a discussion of input from Web Components, and probably js discussion
- 17:14:12 [janina]
- rs: Next steps discussion at end of day
- 17:14:16 [janina]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016#Agenda
- 17:16:15 [LJWatson]
- q+ to strongly recommend we do not mention longdesc at all, let alone in the title of the TPAC discussion.
- 17:16:34 [tzviya]
- q-
- 17:20:07 [janina]
- topic: A11y Object Model
- 17:20:13 [Rich]
- http://a11y-api.github.io/a11y-api/spec/
- 17:23:24 [jcraig]
- what's the webex pass again?
- 17:24:42 [janina]
- s/w3c//
- 17:24:45 [janina]
- s/w3c//
- 17:25:36 [janina]
- rs: Not sure our remaining time is sufficient!
- 17:25:57 [jcraig]
- okay. see you at TPAC then
- 17:27:19 [jcraig]
- okay. installing the WebEx plug-in :-/
- 17:27:52 [jamesn]
- you can just dial in if you like
- 17:31:32 [tzviya]
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- 17:31:47 [janina]
- present+ jcraig
- 17:32:45 [janina]
- jc: api tries to provide underlying a11y structur
- 17:33:23 [janina]
- jc: Also covering things like canvas and webgl
- 17:33:42 [janina]
- jc: want to make sure we can make those accessible
- 17:34:16 [janina]
- jc: proposals were closely related to vendors proposing them
- 17:35:33 [janina]
- jc: accessibility-activate is our version of click
- 17:36:08 [janina]
- mk: We're unable to distinguish between real mouse click and emulated screen reader click
- 17:36:12 [janina]
- jc: This will help
- 17:36:55 [janina]
- jc: Still concerned that a mouse substitute can be divulged
- 17:37:44 [janina]
- jc: Most of the spec doesn't rely on anything with privacy implications
- 17:39:11 [janina]
- mk: Notes it's easy on native apps to distinguish
- 17:39:30 [janina]
- mk: can't do that on the web, and would be helpful
- 17:40:06 [janina]
- jc: Apps get levels of access that aren't necessarily available via the web interface
- 17:40:38 [janina]
- jc: We know some third parties are misuisng this kind of info
- 17:40:59 [janina]
- /party/party websites /
- 17:42:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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- 17:43:17 [janina]
- jc: Looking to prompt the insert when necessary, and give site the opportunity to explain why
- 17:43:37 [janina]
- rs: Anything about user prefs? or just interoperability for now?
- 17:43:44 [janina]
- jc: User prefs still in CSS
- 17:45:04 [janina]
- rs: Recalling that doing more with media queries was a CSS issue
- 17:45:12 [janina]
- jc; Yes, but when there was no OS setting
- 17:46:00 [janina]
- jc: Recalls first IndieUI at Lyon
- 17:46:12 [janina]
- jc: the GPII scope scared most people away
- 17:46:38 [janina]
- rs: We're recently told "no more with media queries"
- 17:48:55 [janina]
- rs: One iterest is a mq for expose or hide ARIA-Details
- 17:51:59 [Rich]
- 12:00-13:00 lunch
- 17:52:00 [Rich]
- 13:00-15:00 ARIA-Details Discovery
- 17:53:13 [janina]
- jc: Think the Details discoverability should be addressed by getting a native OS setting first
- 17:54:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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- 17:54:14 [janina]
- jc: Suggest not fishing for solutions, but to gring forward specific proposals
- 17:54:35 [janina]
- jf: Notes our proposals have been rejected, so would like to hear counter proposals that meet the requirements
- 17:54:58 [janina]
- jc: Propos how a user can set a custom CSS setting
- 17:55:32 [janina]
- jc: Media queries extensibility is likely
- 17:55:59 [janina]
- jc: Maybe not likely, but a good concrete proposal
- 17:56:40 [janina]
- jf: Notes the history of pain around custom style sheets
- 17:57:05 [janina]
- rs: Would like to see extensible mq, so we could use browser plugin
- 17:57:24 [jcraig]
- s/Media queries extensibility is likely/Media queries extensibility is a concrete propsal you coudl take for discussion/
- 17:58:52 [janina]
- rs: Noting that dpub authors already extending the browser by design
- 17:59:17 [janina]
- zakim, bye
- 17:59:17 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Scwherdtfeger, ShaneM, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MichaelC, tzviya, Léonie, Bryan_Garaventa, 1,
- 17:59:17 [Zakim]
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- 17:59:20 [Zakim]
- ... JaEunJemmaKu, JF, LJWatson, matt_king, jongund, jcraig
- 17:59:22 [janina]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:59:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/08-aria-minutes.html janina
- 17:59:29 [jcraig]
- s/Maybe not likely, but a good concrete proposal/just a suggestion. take a problem for discussion with a proposed solution, rather than just an open-ended problem./
- 18:00:03 [jcraig]
- s/Media queries extensibility/Media feature extensibility/
- 18:00:55 [jcraig]
- s/third parties are misuisng/third-party web sites are misusing/
- 18:03:26 [jcraig]
- s/Apps get levels of access that aren't necessarily available via the web interface/Apps get levels of access due to an implicit understanding that they are being installed. Simplying visiting a website doesn't illicit the same level of trust with a user, so we want to protect as much private information about the user as possible. Especially from third-party advertisers./
- 18:06:33 [jcraig]
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- 18:08:29 [jcraig]
- s/api tries to provide underlying a11y structur/Accessibility Object Model (AOM) provides easy property accessors to underlying a11y structure. Augments ARIA. Does not replace or extend it./
- 18:10:07 [jcraig]
- s/Also covering things like canvas and webgl/Also intended to provide an API for entirely virtual trees like WebGL or Canvas 2D Context. These are in shipping products throughout the Web and they are currently accessibility black holes due to no proposed API./
- 18:11:36 [chaals]
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- 18:11:38 [jcraig]
- s/proposals were closely related to vendors proposing them/The vendors proposals (IndieUI, Mozilla AAPI, Microsott WAPA, etc) were all trying to solve similar problems, but failed due to a number of problems; primariy too few agreements early on./
- 18:12:06 [jcraig]
- no. just correcting some of the minutes
- 18:12:12 [tzviya]
- thanks
- 18:13:39 [jcraig]
- s/Still concerned that a mouse substitute can be divulged/TBD is the privacy requirements for events that may divulge user specific modalities or AT. Working very hard to ensure privacy./
- 18:14:49 [jcraig]
- s/accessibility-activate is our version of click/there is an event like "accessibility activate" when standard click is insufficient/
- 18:15:45 [jcraig]
- s/User prefs still in CSS/User prefs for items with native equivalents are still being actively considered for CSS Media Features/
- 18:26:59 [Rich]
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