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16:58:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-aria-apg-irc
16:58:18 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #53: Draft Accordion design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/53
16:58:18 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 67: Develop example Accordion https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67
16:58:18 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review updates to milestone plan https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestones?state=open
16:58:20 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review status of current example development work https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Design-Patterns-Status
16:58:23 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
16:58:24 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
16:58:27 <jamesn> Meeting: ARIA APG TF
16:59:10 <jongund> present+ jongund
16:59:29 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
16:59:54 <jemma_ku> present+ JaEunKu
17:02:34 <annabbott> annabbott has joined #aria-apg
17:02:58 <annabbott> present+ AnnAbbott
17:06:41 <James> James has joined #aria-apg
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17:08:10 <jamesn> agenda?
17:08:23 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:09:20 <Matt_King> zakim, clear agenda
17:09:20 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:09:45 <Matt_King> Agenda+ Do we need Fix-for-#14 branch? https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/commit/d9fd7d72e7fbae82c1c10b3be7b11a0fc3e4fe8d Agenda+ Issue #96: Possible confusing language in Radio Group pattern section https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/96 Agenda+ Issue #53: Draft Accordion design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/53 Agenda+ Issue 67: Develop example Accordion https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67 Agenda+ Revi[CUT]
17:10:23 <jamesn> zakim, clear agenda
17:10:23 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:10:39 <jamesn> Agenda+ Do we need Fix-for-#14 branch? https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/commit/d9fd7d72e7fbae82c1c10b3be7b11a0fc3e4fe8d
17:11:05 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #96: Possible confusing language in Radio Group pattern section https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/96
17:11:16 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #53: Draft Accordion design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/53
17:11:30 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 67: Develop example Accordion https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67 Agenda+
17:12:01 <Matt_King> Agenda+ Review status of current example development work https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Design-Patterns-Status
17:14:14 <jongund> scribe: jongund
17:14:17 <jamesn> scribe: jongund
17:14:38 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 1
17:14:38 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Do we need Fix-for-#14 branch? https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/commit/d9fd7d72e7fbae82c1c10b3be7b11a0fc3e4fe8d" taken up [from jamesn]
17:14:57 <jongund> JN: If it is done, just close
17:15:08 <jongund> MK: It is a branch we don't need
17:15:18 <jongund> zakim, take up item 2
17:15:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue #96: Possible confusing language in Radio Group pattern section https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/96" taken up [from jamesn]
17:16:11 <jongund> MK: I reviewed based on our guidelines, you can see my last to commit comments....
17:16:43 <jongund> MK: editorial changes in description
17:17:01 <jongund> MK: Changed radio group to radio button
17:17:12 <jongund> MK: Other changes based on editorial guidelines
17:17:30 <jongund> MK: Please read now and see if it is OK
17:18:43 <jongund> MK: Name required is true in the spec
17:18:52 <jongund> JN: It doesn't seem correct
17:19:03 <jongund> MK: Do you want to raise a spec issue in ARIA 2.0
17:19:26 <jongund> JN: Why does ARIA require a label for the group if HTML5 doesn't
17:19:48 <jongund> JN: The majority of the time it should have a label, it is an edge when it doesn't
17:20:05 <jongund> MK: Is the way that I worded it ok
17:21:23 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/commit/bab23225c3059da615afc7d2cde9993691d16da5
17:21:36 <Matt_King> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#radiobutton
17:23:43 <jongund> AA: Accessible name is required
17:24:11 <jongund> JN: I am going to log an issue, it should be optional
17:24:31 <jongund> JN: The spec says it is required so we need to tell people to do it
17:24:45 <jongund> MK: We could adjust it based on an ARIA 2.0 draft
17:24:51 <jongund> AA: I have one suggestion
17:25:22 <jongund> AA: Under ARIA, roles, states properties... elements owned by a radio group, move to up after that
17:25:58 <jongund> MK: We address roles first in other patterns, then properties and states in order of relative importance
17:26:13 <jongund> MK: We would need to change alot of other patterns if we do that
17:26:17 <jongund> AA: never mind
17:26:52 <jongund> MK: I am closing issue 696
17:27:44 <jongund> zakim, take up item 3
17:27:44 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue #53: Draft Accordion design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/53" taken up [from jamesn]
17:28:33 <jongund> MK: I started from the according pattern in the edeleted file
17:28:43 <jongund> MK: It is in the editors draft
17:29:47 <jamesn> fyi logged aria issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/427
17:31:26 <jongund> MK: This is the first draft, I don't have anything to say about the overall, after reading quite a bit, there is no single according pattern
17:31:43 <jongund> MK: I tried to pick out the most popular pattern
17:32:56 <jongund> JG: When focus is on headers you didn't include arrow keys by themselves
17:33:34 <jongund> MK: I was worried about browser scrolling the window
17:34:12 <jongund> JG: What about adding control to the home and end keys
17:35:23 <jongund> JN: I am thinking, I mostly tab through them, I am not concerned about scrolling since
17:35:41 <jongund> JN: I don't think people need the up and down arrow keys
17:35:52 <jongund> MK: I deleted most of the previous stuff
17:36:33 <jongund> JN: Often the implementation of these things are the according code is different than the code in container
17:37:26 <jongund> JN: The stuff in the according pane is content, not part of accordion pattern
17:37:37 <jongund> JN: If we include it it should be there all the time
17:37:59 <jongund> MK: If you make the accordion widget it should do it all the time
17:38:20 <jongund> MK: Bubbling will take care of precidence
17:38:34 <jongund> MK: It is important to document some way to get to the header
17:38:49 <jongund> MK: We need some level of consistency
17:39:20 <jongund> MK: I chose that one because of broser support
17:39:48 <jongund> JN: You are not worried about stealing control+page up and control+ page down
17:40:08 <jongund> JN: Firefox and chrome do, IE doesn't
17:40:36 <jongund> MK: On the mac most people do not even know where the page down key is
17:40:45 <jongund> MK: We can see if we get feedback
17:41:07 <jongund> MK: In general we should be making the content more important than the chrome/OS
17:41:30 <jongund> JN: What we need is a new key on keybopards
17:41:57 <jongund> MK: What we expect keys to go to the operating system, the browser is equivalent to the operating system
17:42:25 <jongund> JN: I agree with you as long as I don't wany to use those keys
17:42:46 <jongund> MK: We should change to control+Home and control+End
17:43:12 <jongund> JG: I vote for consistency
17:43:33 <jongund> MK: I am incline to include up and down arrow keys
17:43:50 <jongund> JN: I definitely see people using the down arrow key
17:44:01 <jongund> MK: You use home and end in the key as well
17:45:07 <jongund> JN: Don't take space
17:45:23 <jongund> MK: If you tab off the header then the scrolling works
17:45:39 <jongund> JN: Assuming there is something to move focus to
17:46:00 <jongund> MK: Do we want to make the panel focusable
17:46:19 <jongund> JG: We want to make sure peope know they exist
17:46:29 <jongund> MK: We can mark them as optional
17:47:31 <jongund> MK: Any comment on the first section
17:48:01 <jongund> JK: I like it
17:48:49 <jongund> JG: Button inside header?
17:48:52 <jongund> MK: Yes
17:50:01 <jongund> MK: JG: what about document order issue?  Is that a problem?
17:50:25 <jongund> JK: Collapse and expand I don't see a header
17:50:52 <jongund> MK: Some have a expand/contract button, in the example we use CSS
17:51:20 <jongund> JK: What is the order?
17:51:39 <jongund> MK: The panel would always follow the header
17:52:01 <jongund> MK: I am not worried about that issue
17:52:29 <jongund> MK: Go on to issue 67
17:52:54 <jongund> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67
17:54:00 <jongund> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/accordion/accordion1.html
17:54:32 <jongund> JN: I have a comment, can we get rid of the web fonts
17:54:45 <jongund> JN: I don't think we need them
17:54:54 <jemma_ku> https://cdn.rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/examples/accordion/accordion1.html
17:55:00 <jongund> AA: Who's idea is the dark gray background
17:55:12 <jongund> MK: How do I delete the files
17:55:24 <jongund> JN: I can look at them and see if they are being used
17:55:44 <jongund> MK: I do not pay attention to fonts...
17:55:54 <jongund> JK: I do not see them being used
17:55:56 <jemma_ku> https://cdn.rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/examples/accordion/css/global.css
17:56:15 <jongund> MK: They were in his zip file
17:56:51 <jongund> AA: Will it get rid of the dark gray background?
17:57:02 <jongund> JN: We need to work on the visual styling
17:57:24 <jongund> JN: It doesn't look like he is using the fonts
17:57:36 <jemma_ku> legend { 	font: normal 1.5em/1 antonregular, Frutiger, "Frutiger Linotype", Univers, Calibri, "Gill Sans", "Gill Sans MT", "Myriad Pro", Myriad, "DejaVu Sans Condensed", "Liberation Sans", "Nimbus Sans L", Tahoma, Geneva, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sa
17:57:39 <jongund> JK: I found where the fonts are used
17:58:08 <jongund> ... web font discussion related to accordion example ...
17:59:20 <jongund> JN: It needs some styling work....
17:59:37 <jongund> MK: Can you work on the CSS this week?
17:59:44 <jongund> JN: Yes I can do it
18:00:14 <jongund> MK: I am adding a comment to the issue, issue 67
18:02:41 <jongund> ... discussion about closing issue 56 on revising the pattern ...
18:02:47 <jongund> ... discussion about closing issue 53 on revising the pattern ...
18:02:58 <jongund> MK: I am going to close issue 53
18:03:25 <jongund> MK: we can discuss the example on september 9th
18:03:42 <jongund> zakim, take up item 4
18:03:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Issue 67: Develop example Accordion https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67 Agenda+" taken up [from jamesn]
18:04:27 <jemma_ku> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/98
18:04:57 <jongund> Next meeting is September 12th
18:05:12 <jongund> JG: I created pull request for 4 tree view examples
18:05:25 <jongund> MK: We can look at that on september 12th
18:07:09 <jongund> JG: I may have combobox examples
18:07:35 <jongund> MK: I wonder if .... APG 1.1
18:11:14 <jongund> MK: We can mark in the top table... reviews and edits done
18:12:41 <jongund> ... review of implementation table ...
18:13:10 <jongund> JK: layout grid question, grid and treegrid
18:13:23 <jongund> JK: never mind I was thinking about table
18:13:45 <jongund> MK: We will start out with a data gird
18:13:58 <jongund> s/gird/grid/
18:14:23 <jongund> JK: Is landmark example done
18:14:25 <jongund> AA: yes
18:15:21 <jongund> JN: We moved the one we are not going to get done into that table
18:15:41 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:15:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-aria-apg-minutes.html jongund
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