13:54:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #auto-wcag
13:54:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/25-auto-wcag-irc
14:01:37 <rdeltour> rdeltour has joined #auto-wcag
14:03:13 <Wilco> hi shadi, you coming?
14:03:13 <Avneesh> present+ Avneesh
14:03:25 <cpandhi> cpandhi has joined #auto-wcag
14:05:55 <shadi> present+ shadi
14:07:40 <cpandhi> present+ Charu
14:09:27 <cpandhi> Scribe: charu
14:10:07 <cpandhi> topic: TPAC meeting
14:10:09 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #auto-wcag
14:12:16 <cpandhi> Shadi: We should not hold a formal meeting as people have not made travel arrangements, we can have a meeting with a phone bridge, have asked the WCAG group to have a small slice of time to have a formal blessing and good tie in with the TPAC group
14:12:42 <cpandhi> We have rooms for both Thursday and Friday, have to confirm the timings
14:13:04 <rdeltour> I'll be there, can attend Thu and/or Fri
14:13:05 <cpandhi> Wilco: i can attend on Thursday
14:13:43 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2016/
14:13:46 <cpandhi> Shadi: we have five attendees and several observers, the chart is not publicly visible
14:14:44 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/
14:14:48 <cpandhi> Shadi: technical issue, this is a community group, we have to get the group on the task force, you have to join the task force or the WCAG working group
14:14:50 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/participation.html
14:15:31 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #auto-wcag
14:15:31 <cpandhi> Shadi: on the left side there are couple of steps to follow and complete to participate in the task force
14:15:54 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:16:35 <cpandhi> Shadi: Participation in the task force is enough but encouraged to joined the WCAG working group to have more cordination
14:18:01 <cpandhi> Shadi: AS registered participants we have Allen as observer, Several people marked as observers, Katie and i are registered, Roman is as well
14:18:30 <cpandhi> Wico: sounds good, do we need to send out an announcement
14:19:54 <cpandhi> Shadi: Separate discussion on that, We can say we will have an informal get together
14:21:09 <cpandhi> Allan: if it is just saying hello then it is better t do it on the phone
14:21:38 <cpandhi> Shadi: Start thinking about the requirement and the output
14:21:55 <agarrison> Alistair: it would be useful to have an agenda produced reasonably soon, so people can decide whether to attend in person or not.
14:22:55 <cpandhi> Wilco: thinking along the same lines, Do you suggest we start working on the infrastructure, output is one, or is the requirement the right thing to start with
14:23:07 <cpandhi> Shadi: it should be the requirements
14:23:49 <cpandhi> Wilco: look at existing project and see if we can learn from those to start with
14:24:31 <cpandhi> Alliser: thinking may be there are similar thing out there, piggy backing on the known processes
14:25:09 <shadi> s/Alliser/Alistair
14:25:31 <cpandhi> Wico: we should explore that, i would look at related projects for accessibility testing, what we like about that and take that as the outline for what we want to do
14:25:50 <cpandhi> Allister: define what we are looking for in a simple sentence
14:27:10 <cpandhi> Wilco: i am looking for project related to standardization and automation related to accessibility testing, iso standards, looking at the accessibility testing, what did they get right and what we can improve
14:28:27 <cpandhi> Shadi: how about we set up a wiki page where we list all the related work in some format that we can scan and people could add information on what their organization is working on
14:28:57 <cpandhi> Shadi: Should this be a task force wiki or working group
14:30:14 <cpandhi> Shadi: all the work should be in a certain space that can be licensed and made public, so put it in the Auto WCAG
14:30:32 <cpandhi> Wilco: we may have something
14:30:39 <Wilco> https://www.w3.org/community/auto-wcag/wiki/List_of_other_WCAG_test_specifications
14:31:05 <cpandhi> Shadi: you can send that out and that could be input for our face to face
14:31:29 <cpandhi> Allister: they just look like test
14:31:55 <cpandhi> Wico: we want to put it there as projects then just framework
14:32:14 <cpandhi> Wilco: take an action item to set up a list and send out a call
14:32:37 <cpandhi> Allister: that would be a call for framework
14:33:47 <cpandhi> Wilco: yes, rules themselves are Auto WCAG, but the design is also related to ACT, we can consider that in the standard.
14:34:14 <cpandhi> Allister: is that not too prescriptive?
14:34:50 <cpandhi> Allister: tools architecture might be different
14:35:46 <cpandhi> Allister: if you have a set of tests and then you run multiple tools to get same set of results, conform to test results
14:36:15 <cpandhi> Wilco: ideas in the tool can be used as standard
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14:36:55 <cpandhi> Allister: i would be skeptical to tell people how to architect their tools
14:37:51 <cpandhi> Emma: we should prescribe the parameters
14:38:07 <shadi> s/Emma/Katie
14:38:26 <cpandhi> Wilco: i feel we should work on the details
14:39:11 <cpandhi> Allister: separation between the ACT and Auto WCAG is necessary, it is blur
14:40:38 <cpandhi> Wilco: what we have done from the start what we want from the rules, as we write the rules we are finding things and separating out as we have our group formed and architecture going
14:42:09 <cpandhi> Al : we need to clearly define and separate out
14:43:14 <shadi> q+
14:43:16 <cpandhi> Wico: what we can do is, if you want to write ACT rules it should be Earl as a prerequisite and the environment your are testing in and parsing
14:43:52 <cpandhi> Al: those are good examples that will help clearly layout as a backgroud
14:45:54 <cpandhi> Shadi: i do think we should have an re introductory meeting, what are the possible output format and add other formats and ideas and the same for frameworks
14:46:56 <cpandhi> Shadi: In the early phase we should pull out the specification and relation of different parts to justify why we picked certain framework or outputs
14:47:31 <cpandhi> Wilco: We can layout the proffered way of doing
14:48:03 <cpandhi> Shadi: define the assumptions and parameters i a requirement document
14:48:21 <cpandhi> Allister: not all tools require framework
14:49:09 <cpandhi> Wilco: Framework is not a software framework, just how rules will be build
14:49:35 <cpandhi> Shadi: you have a glossary? we need terms defined
14:50:05 <cpandhi> Wico: During the workshop we came up with definations
14:50:29 <cpandhi> Shadi: yes that will be helpful as background
14:50:53 <cpandhi> Shadi: we may not require framework
14:51:26 <cpandhi> Allister: how does Selenium tie in?
14:51:36 <shadi> ack me
14:51:45 <cpandhi> Wilco: Selenium drives the environment
14:52:59 <cpandhi> Shadi: We need to have a way to support different framework
14:54:38 <cpandhi> Katie: We need to define rules and parameters that support different frameworks
14:55:43 <cpandhi> Wilco: what is relevant how to eliminate false positive irrespective of how they build the tool
14:56:44 <cpandhi> Allister: As long as the tool out puts correct results, they should be OK, need a testsuite that runs against any tool with right results
14:57:12 <cpandhi> Katie: WCAG needs to be outcome based
14:58:07 <cpandhi> Shadi: we need bit of both, need a rules repository that tools can run, probably want people to contribute tests as well,
14:58:09 <Avneesh> I have to leave for another call, sorry. Thanks for god discussion.
14:58:28 <cpandhi> Katie: inter operable format
15:00:04 <cpandhi> Al: there is proprietary stuff, we need control data to validate or it will not be good. Building rules and control data that people can validate is what we need
15:00:37 <emmaPR_bbc> Is the control data similar to the benchmarking that is marked out as the second ACT deliverable?
15:01:16 <cpandhi> Alistair: Going to the techniques and pulling the test procedure and run the tests
15:01:33 <cpandhi> Wilco: Thats the direction we all are leading too
15:02:15 <cpandhi> Wilco: Question for Shadi, What do we need to do to get invited experts?
15:03:14 <cpandhi> Shadi: there are steps to follow, please encourage them to start the process to join or get in touch with me
15:04:29 <cpandhi> Al: Do we know PA11y group?
15:04:46 <emmaPR_bbc> Pa11y are London based
15:04:55 <cpandhi> Wico: next meeting in 2 weeks, next rules meeting will be next week
15:05:11 <Wilco> RSSagent, make minutes
15:05:20 <cpandhi> rss make minutes
15:05:30 <cpandhi> rss: make minutes
15:05:46 <Wilco> RSSagent, create minutes
15:05:55 <emmaPR_bbc> Look at previous minutes
15:06:02 <emmaPR_bbc> SOmeone asked last time
15:06:29 <cpandhi> Zakim create minuts
15:06:42 <shadi> zakim, bye
15:06:42 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Avneesh, shadi, Charu, Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:06:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #auto-wcag
15:06:44 <cpandhi> ok thanks
15:06:46 <shadi> rrsganet, make minutes
15:06:56 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/25-auto-wcag-minutes.html shadi
15:07:06 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes public
15:07:06 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shadi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:07:17 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs public
15:07:19 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes public
15:07:19 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shadi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:07:24 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/25-auto-wcag-minutes.html shadi
15:07:28 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
15:07:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items