IRC log of apps on 2016-08-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:53:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #apps
12:53:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/10-apps-irc
12:53:33 [Ian]
Meeting: Payment Apps Task Force
12:53:44 [Ian]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2016Aug/0042.html
12:53:46 [Ian]
Chair: ian
13:01:49 [alyver]
alyver has joined #apps
13:02:59 [alyver]
need dial-in details, please
13:03:14 [Ian]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mab3c7a1fb772cbcbf39b054b2ebd9183
13:03:17 [Ian]
present+ Ian
13:03:20 [Ian]
present+ AdamR
13:04:16 [Ian]
present+ Andre
13:06:00 [maheshk]
maheshk has joined #apps
13:06:45 [Ian]
Spec: https://w3c.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/
13:07:28 [Ian]
topic: New draft
13:07:34 [Ian]
IJ: Please review updated draft
13:08:13 [Ian]
present+ Mahesh
13:08:44 [Ian]
topic: Registration
13:08:58 [Ian]
https://w3c.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/#registration-and-unregistration
13:09:49 [Ian]
IJ: Jason completed his action about registration.
13:09:59 [Ian]
"Registration is not required to invoke a payment app or process a response. If a payment app is included in the list of recommended apps provided by the merchant and the user selects it during the checkout process then the app is not required to register itself with the user agent, it can still walk the user through the payment process that it provides and in the end provide a payment response to the user agent."
13:11:21 [Ian]
Jason: note the relation to second bullet.
13:12:41 [Ian]
s/Jason/Andre
13:14:37 [Ian]
IJ: Should payment apps api have "all the bits necessary to do payment apps, including modifications to payment request api?"
13:14:38 [Ian]
or
13:14:47 [Ian]
we should do pull requests to payment request API?
13:14:51 [Ian]
AdamR: I strongly prefer the latter.
13:15:41 [Ian]
Andre: Also prefer that it be done in payment request API
13:15:47 [Ian]
Mahesh: I am also leaning that way
13:16:55 [Ian]
AdamR: Let's put on the agenda of this week's call.
13:18:19 [Ian]
ACTION: Ian is going to make small edits to 4.3 to make clearer that registration is not required to use a payment app; it's required for persistence
13:18:44 [Ian]
Andre: We revisited recommended payment apps
13:19:00 [Ian]
...in some cases flow can be awkward - merchant recommending apps that the user may not have used before.
13:19:23 [Ian]
...for whatever reason, suppose user is inclined to use bob's pay wallet, but doesn't yet have a bob pay account
13:22:12 [Ian]
[Aha moment]
13:22:25 [Ian]
Andre: You may need a wrapper for some payment methods.
13:22:54 [Ian]
...you might find yourself with a payment app that acts like a wrapper that knows how to invoke some payment methods.
13:23:08 [Ian]
...think Shopify's "active merchant" module
13:23:23 [Ian]
...which has 150 payment gateways connected into it; and people can add their own via a library spec
13:23:36 [Ian]
present+ AdrianHB
13:25:09 [Ian]
...I am concerned there could be a proliferation of payment apps that act as wrappers.
13:25:14 [Ian]
AdrianHB: Is that a problem?
13:25:22 [Ian]
...can you stop people from coding?
13:28:07 [Ian]
q?
13:28:43 [Ian]
[Discussion of hosted pages]
13:29:33 [Ian]
Andre: Suppose a merchant wants to use a hosted page (e.g., hosted by worldpay). As a merchant, I can redirect user to worldpay page, and worldpay has done the integration to paypal. Merchant beforehand has provided worldpay with credentials.
13:30:06 [Ian]
AdrianHB: Worldpay, similarly, could do this from a payment app
13:30:27 [Ian]
Andre: How does the customer know they have to use the "worldpay payment" app to pay with some payment method?
13:30:34 [Ian]
..if we allow apps to register themselves at checkout, this helps.
13:31:02 [Ian]
AdrianHB: It's actually not the worldpay payment app, it's branded for the merchant
13:31:16 [Ian]
...so we imagine worldpay or others building white label payment apps
13:31:27 [Ian]
..and each merchant who wants it gets a branded version
13:31:40 [Ian]
...then it's up to the retailer to incentivize the user to install the merchant app
13:32:19 [Ian]
AdrianHB: But we don't want to find ourselves in a place where merchants require users to install the merchants' app
13:33:07 [Ian]
Andre: Can you have the same app register itself under multiple names?
13:33:13 [Ian]
IJ: Yes (different payment app identifier)
13:34:00 [Ian]
AdrianHB: But we need to be able to enable the payment app to get javascript from another origin
13:34:09 [Ian]
...we need think carefully about what that means.
13:35:28 [Ian]
topic: Trust
13:35:41 [Ian]
Q. should merchants be able to limit apps to those that they accept?
13:36:27 [Ian]
AdrianHB: I think this defeats the purpose of having payment methods (and decoupling them from payment apps)
13:36:41 [Ian]
...how would a merchant say "I only support basic card payment method supported by the browser"?
13:36:45 [Ian]
(IJ: Good question)
13:36:54 [Ian]
...this is a pretty major change in approach based on our early discussions
13:38:21 [Ian]
..if the merchant can say I accept PayPal (the payment method)
13:38:33 [Ian]
...why do they need to limit the set of apps?
13:38:55 [Ian]
...if they want that level of control they can not use the payment request API
13:39:28 [Ian]
q+
13:39:48 [Ian]
AdrianHB: I understand that merchants want to control the payment system, but that's not how this system works.
13:39:51 [Ian]
ack me
13:41:33 [Ian]
AdrianHB Proposal: No filtering mechanism other than on payment methods
13:43:20 [Ian]
...I don't want to facilitate an anti-pattern that sounds like "best viewed in browser X"
13:44:23 [alyver]
q+
13:44:55 [Ian]
ack al
13:45:10 [Ian]
alyver: I think +1 to AHB
13:45:17 [Ian]
...we are working through payment request implementation on our side
13:45:34 [Ian]
...one challenge we encountered was a merchant accepting N payment methods supported by Shopify
13:45:49 [Ian]
...for our checkout to be a seamless experience, we can have the checkout button trigger payment request, but it excludes some payment apps
13:46:04 [Ian]
...so we've had to limit the scope of our payment request implementation to those merchants who only accept credit cards
13:46:09 [Ian]
...otherwise you get 2 different flows
13:47:16 [Ian]
AdamR: I heard AdrianHB said that people can define their own PMIs
13:47:25 [Ian]
...I am also concerned about ossification
13:47:50 [Ian]
IJ: So I am hearing remove accepted apps bits from the spec
13:47:54 [Ian]
...any design considering
13:48:07 [AdrianHB]
Define their PMIs or use some other existing mechanism to hand-off the checkout to a specific app like custom-url protocols
13:48:53 [Ian]
IJ: I propose to add "if the merchant wants tine-grain control over apps...they can do this in several ways..."
13:49:37 [Ian]
AdamR: I think we should not talk about the anti-pattern
13:53:07 [Ian]
AdrianHB: Could say "This API is designed so that merchants do need to focus on application integration"
13:55:13 [Ian]
ACTION:Ian to update decoupling section and remove filtering on apps from the spec
13:55:22 [Ian]
...and close the related issue with the resolution
13:55:38 [Ian]
...with link to the minutes
13:56:25 [Ian]
topic: User experiences
13:56:31 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/PaymentApp_Notes#user-experience-descriptions
13:59:34 [Ian]
(IJ: I note that I need to remove the accepted apps column)
13:59:39 [Ian]
Andre: Add line numbers
14:02:09 [Ian]
ACTION: AdrianHB to read the table for next week's call.
14:02:31 [Ian]
[Adrian leaves]
14:02:58 [Ian]
AdamR: Regarding the table...I think you could collapse the table
14:05:21 [Ian]
Topic: Implementations
14:05:44 [Ian]
IJ: Can we show up at TPAC with payment app demos?
14:06:40 [Ian]
IJ: How do we get polypill?
14:06:47 [Ian]
IJ: Any payment app developers we could use with?
14:08:27 [Ian]
Andre: I will take away the question and see if we can find anyone to speak with.
14:08:33 [Ian]
Mahesh: I will get back to you as well.
14:09:18 [Ian]
Topic: Next call
14:09:24 [Ian]
17 August
14:09:33 [Ian]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:09:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/10-apps-minutes.html Ian
14:09:35 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
15:24:03 [alyver]
alyver has joined #apps
15:26:57 [alyver]
alyver has joined #apps
16:11:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #apps