See also: IRC log
who is here?
<Wayne> scribe, wayne
<Wayne> Extra Agenda:
<Wayne> Jim: We will be sending out a poll, the conflict with Mobil hurts.
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/144#issuecomment-231309107
<laura> Techniques needed for Icon Fonts #144
<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/144
<laura> Using aria-hidden="true" on an icon font that AT should ignore
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-hidden%3Dtrue_on_an_icon_font_that_AT_should_ignore
<laura> Icon Font with an On-Screen Text Alternative
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Icon_Font_with_an_On-Screen_Text_Alternative
<laura> Using aria-hidden="true" on Unicode characters that AT should ignore
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_Decorative_Unicode_Character
<laura> Unicode Character with an On-Screen Text Alternative
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_an_On-Screen_Text_Alternative_for_an_Icon_Font
discussion of off-screen vs on-screen alternative
with all the usability studies about the hamburger menu, on-screen alternative better for everyone
is this a magnifier issue? or what is the issue with icon fonts and unicode characters?
scott: Zoomtext had issues previously, seems to be fixed. Unicode character text to speech engine may or may not speak?
awk: there are some unicode characters don't have a text alternative
scott: some speech engines don't
recognize the unicode characters. there is a problem with
replacement unicode characters - substituting an icon for an
unicode entitity
... then user gets a box - no icon, or a label that makes no
sense in relation to context or the icon
awk: need to mindful of issues.
unicode private use area...
... on a page have a font as a ligature "home", announced as
house, but the character is a picture of house
... don't want to say "icon fonts are bad" need nuance
wayne: icon fonts can be made
very large. problem is with the naming - have things spoken
with text to speech. they are very unpredicable
... chaotic with icon fonts
<Wayne> scott: Because it is private use there is not map to the character?
scott: hard to tell what the icon
is, and speech doesn't help. hard to put a tooltip on an icon
font.
... from LV perspective they are ok, IF authors are following
the other rules.
awk: so a screen reader issue (text to speech)
<AWK> http://timepiece.inostudio.de
wayne: LV users use screen
readers
... some work, some don't
awk: when do they work, when don't they. need to define the work/non-work
scott: clock, screen reader sees
it, reads it.
... if one character so a screen reader says multiple words. or
are we limited to one character?
<Wayne> I have these issues: 1) Sometimes I cannot see the icon because it has too little contrast or is too complex, 2) when I listen there is not text alternative.
awk: then they use ligature
(combined characters). data is 2 or more characters, but
onscreen is 1 character. but screen reader sees word.
... need to word techniques to allow things done properly. and
define what is "done properly"
wayne: need simple, good contrast, and text alternative.
awk: explains concept. will write page for examples of icon fonts, with ligature - so screen reader works, change fonts and word appears and icon vanishes. need some examples
laura: can we review each technique
scott: awk approach may work. may
be cognitive issue. need some issue where icon makes no
sense...need mechanism to have words -- fail gracefully
... tool time, or turn off icons and get words
<ScottM> something is wrong with IRC
<ScottM> I keep getting disconnected...
<laura> Using aria-hidden="true" on an icon font that AT should ignore
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-hidden%3Dtrue_on_an_icon_font_that_AT_should_ignore
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/iconfonts/decorative.html
showing heading with red triangle. private area character.
not announce because hidden by aria
<laura> Icon Font with an On-Screen Text Alternative
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Icon_Font_with_an_On-Screen_Text_Alternative
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/iconfonts/onscreen_alt.html
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/iconfonts/onscreen_alt_in_link.html
<laura> Using aria-hidden="true" on Unicode characters that AT should ignore
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_Decorative_Unicode_Character
the ones with unicode are very similar. all work with a screen reader
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/unicode/decorative.html
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_an_On-Screen_Text_Alternative_for_an_Icon_Font
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/unicode/onscreen_alt.html
<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/tests/unicode/onscreen_alt_in_link.html
must have empty span with aria-hidden=true to keep "anything" from being spoken
wayne: serious authoring issue to
get a character on the screen.
... Laura's are good techniques
<ScottM> KISS is always best (Keep it simple stupid) :)
3 points - need words, need good contrast, need simple icons
awk: may be 1 technique, hiding disruptive content using unsupported font information.
laura: different ways to code.
awk: may get push back is always words.
ja: add points to techniques...not the SC
laura: all have aria-hidden, different ways to code.
awk: are icon fonts a problem,
and what is the problem.
... laura's techniques are about assistive technology.
wayne: if you can't distinguish the character, you need the words
scott: you need the words if you can't understand the 1 character (icon),
ja: change the preamble to say not AT and AT users. include wayne's points
<laura> New Low Vision SC to set baseline contrast for images & icons that convey information (WCAG Issue 96)
<laura> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/3
awk: uncomfortable about defining
icon fonts. some character/glyph/etc what has meaning to whom
under what conditions
... unicode left facing triange, has meaning, and screen
readers speak correctly... its a matter of use and context
<Wayne> AWK: We are not sure what icon fonts are. Icon font is not as clear. Letters like A or Chinese characters have unque identification. Icon fonts are not unique in their interpretation. What does an Icon font mean?
awk: information must be correctly expressed and presented/rendered properly
<Wayne> Scott: Limit letters to the natural language of the page.
<Wayne> s: An Icon is established, but what does it mean.
<Wayne> s: Has meaning in the context of the page. Words and letters have meaning in the context of their language.
<Wayne> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/who is here?// No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: AllanJ Inferring Scribes: AllanJ Default Present: AllanJ, Laura, Wayne, AWK Present: (no one) Laura Wayne AWK Regrets: shawn JohnR Found Date: 28 Jul 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/07/28-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]