IRC log of apps on 2016-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:01:15 [RRSAgent]
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13:01:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-apps-irc
13:01:17 [Zakim]
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13:02:52 [Max]
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13:03:38 [Ian]
present+ Andre
13:03:40 [Ian]
present+ Ian
13:03:44 [Ian]
present+ Kapeng
13:03:46 [Ian]
present+ Dapeng
13:03:48 [Ian]
present+ Jason
13:03:53 [Ian]
present+ Conor
13:04:02 [Ian]
present+ Mahesh
13:04:10 [conorh_wp]
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13:04:17 [alyver]
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13:05:02 [Kepeng]
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13:05:23 [Ian]
topic: New time
13:05:25 [Ian]
this is it!
13:05:30 [maheshkk]
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13:06:28 [Ian]
topic: FTF feedback or impressions?
13:07:10 [Ian]
IJ: Any thoughts on the meeting? Key topics?
13:07:37 [Ian]
[No speakers]
13:08:10 [Ian]
topic: Issues
13:08:17 [Ian]
New repo -> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api
13:08:25 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues
13:08:28 [conorh_wp]
+q
13:08:36 [Ian]
ack conor
13:08:54 [Ian]
conor: I also sent comments / issues
13:08:59 [Ian]
...is email sufficient?
13:11:38 [Ian]
Topic: #1 Should merchants be able to limit matching to trusted apps?
13:11:47 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/1
13:12:05 [Ian]
present+ JasonYoung
13:14:55 [Ian]
IJ: Any initial reactions?
13:15:17 [Max]
q+
13:15:18 [Ian]
Andre: Merchants want to know exactly what the experience will be like otherwise they will bypass the mechanism.
13:15:36 [alyver]
q+
13:15:47 [Ian]
...users may have a hard time knowing even what a payment app is, so the experience has to be good
13:15:50 [Ian]
ack Max
13:16:14 [Ian]
Max: I think I agree with the point. Nowadays, merchants who work with Aliababa...we have a trust relationships with them
13:16:32 [Ian]
...as you mentioned, for card payments, it's not sure how to establish the trust relationship
13:16:37 [Ian]
...so I think it's a valid concern
13:16:52 [jnormore]
lol
13:17:41 [Ian]
Andre: Echoing what Jason said, there is concern about ensuring the checkout experience though payment apps is as good as it can be
13:18:07 [Ian]
...from a merchant perspective, question is "is a customer going to install an app from a third party"?
13:18:45 [jnormore]
q+
13:18:45 [Ian]
...it's not clear how people will know that a payment app (e.g., from some payment service provider) has to be installed in order to check out with a merchant
13:19:27 [Ian]
ack jno
13:19:30 [Ian]
ack aly
13:19:59 [Ian]
jnormore: Merchants want to increase conversion...the more options customers have, conversion drops
13:20:12 [alyver]
agree
13:20:12 [Ian]
...the option to install multiple payment apps for the same type of payment will lower conversion
13:20:19 [Ian]
...in particular for first-time experience
13:20:38 [Ian]
..it's a huge deal for smaller merchants who don't have as many returning customers
13:20:50 [Ian]
q?
13:22:24 [Ian]
IJ: Should we just have merchant preferences that might affect ordering or should we have merchant preferences that affect filtering?
13:22:41 [maheshkk]
q+
13:22:45 [Ian]
ack mach
13:22:47 [Ian]
ack mah
13:23:08 [Ian]
maheshkk: For the merchant, whether they recommend or prefer an app, it still doesn't tell me that the user has an app
13:23:28 [Ian]
...if none are available, it's still no good for the merchant
13:23:36 [Ian]
...merchant may still want a discovery mechanism
13:24:07 [Ian]
q+ to talk about related topic of query API
13:24:50 [Ian]
..I still come back to the same question asked previously - should merchants have a way to discover whether a payment app is available?
13:25:28 [Ian]
ack me
13:25:28 [Zakim]
Ian, you wanted to talk about related topic of query API
13:25:29 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/issues/159
13:26:43 [alyver]
Also this issue: https://github.com/w3c/browser-payment-api/issues/155
13:28:06 [Ian]
The coding looks like this:
13:28:12 [Ian]
* Browser support API? If no then fail
13:28:17 [Ian]
* User have any apps? If no then fail
13:28:28 [Ian]
* payment request API? If no then fail, otherwise user select
13:30:49 [Ian]
(Related: displaying recommended apps, and how installed recommended apps v. uninstalled are displayed)?
13:31:16 [Ian]
IJ: Do we need a flow diagram?
13:31:32 [conorh_wp]
+q
13:32:13 [Ian]
Mahesh: I would also like to be able to answer the question "Can they pay with my app?" with privacy protection. That would be useful.
13:32:15 [Ian]
ack cono
13:32:22 [Ian]
conorh_wp: Yes, I think the picture is coming together.
13:32:29 [Ian]
...I think a flow diagram would definitely be useful.
13:32:48 [Ian]
...The concept of a payment app is alien to consumers. Have we addressed that at all?
13:33:02 [Ian]
...I think users may not care about payment apps...they just want to use credit cards in their wallet.
13:33:03 [Ian]
q+
13:33:03 [jnormore]
q+
13:33:08 [Ian]
ack jno
13:33:33 [Ian]
jnormore: I have had the same thought. From a customer perspective, they want to choose the payment method (card, paypal, slippery, etc.)
13:33:37 [Ian]
s/slippery/alipay
13:34:15 [Ian]
...so we show "pay with credit card" and then send users off to a page
13:34:21 [Ian]
...we also show user-friendly brands
13:34:27 [Ian]
...so is the registration model even necessary?
13:34:45 [Ian]
..if it's up to the merchants to control what payment apps are visible, is the registration model hurting us?
13:35:37 [Ian]
IJ: Good topic - how to make registration as smooth as possible (near automatic)?
13:35:49 [Ian]
ack me
13:37:29 [Ian]
q?
13:38:20 [Ian]
IJ: Anyone want to work on a flow diagram?
13:38:29 [Ian]
(of how user selects payment apps, and possible queries?)
13:38:46 [Ian]
topic: Issue 2 - What portion of the PaymentRequest is sent to the payment app?
13:40:06 [Jason]
Jason has joined #apps
13:40:25 [conorh_wp]
+q
13:40:47 [Ian]
IJ: Proposed that we only send the subset of payment request data that is relevant to the payment app
13:40:49 [Ian]
ack conor
13:41:04 [Ian]
conorh_wp: Would merchants ever send transaction-specific data for the processor?
13:41:10 [Ian]
(via tha payment app)
13:41:23 [Ian]
https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-payment-request-20160705/#paymentrequest-constructor
13:43:18 [Ian]
IJ: You can send data, but if the data is not "standardized" you don't interop
13:45:05 [Ian]
IJ: Proposed that we only send the subset of payment request data that is relevant to the select payment app
13:45:14 [conorh_wp]
+1
13:45:25 [maheshkk]
+1
13:45:29 [jnormore]
+1
13:45:37 [Ian]
ACTION: Ian to report back to the issues list that there were no objections to the proposal
13:45:53 [Ian]
Topic: Conor's email
13:45:57 [Ian]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2016Jul/0048.html
13:48:09 [Ian]
IJ: From merchant perspective, might have a range from "origin only" to "url to identify specific version"
13:48:18 [Ian]
IJ: From payment app perspective, that can be left to the payment app
13:48:33 [Ian]
...if you allow payment app to query registration information
13:49:00 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/PaymentApp_Notes
13:50:46 [Ian]
IJ: the more we have merchants wanting to specify app preferences, the more some might want versioning
13:50:52 [Ian]
conor: but that increases coupling which we may not want
13:51:11 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/1
13:51:14 [Ian]
could add a note there
13:52:11 [Ian]
For suggestions, please do pull requests against the spec
13:53:07 [Ian]
Is there a reason .unregister(“request_url”) has not been proposed? => pull request please
13:53:09 [maheshkk]
+1 unregister()
13:57:09 [Ian]
[On registration and launch of native app]
13:57:26 [Ian]
IJ: Can have standard registration approach (using web) but launching may just be about good practice documentation
14:00:01 [Ian]
Topic: Requirements
14:00:08 [Ian]
topic: Design principles
14:03:48 [AdrianHB]
q+ to ask what these are for payment request, an example would help
14:04:23 [Ian]
IJ: I mean something like "A user should be able to use any payment app for a given payment method"
14:04:27 [Ian]
ack AdrianHB
14:04:28 [Zakim]
AdrianHB, you wanted to ask what these are for payment request, an example would help
14:04:34 [Ian]
AdrianHB: Did we do that for payment request API?
14:05:14 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/WPWG-FTF-Feb-2016-Requirements
14:06:11 [Ian]
IJ: We did that for PMIs. Not for payment request API AFAIK
14:06:17 [Ian]
..it was used for PMIs and I think useful
14:07:36 [AdrianHB]
+1 for sincere engagement
14:08:20 [Ian]
I Propose to take a stab at this for our meeting next week
14:09:00 [Ian]
..to clarify, I don't want the task force to stop working on the spec
14:09:35 [Ian]
AdrianHB: I want to avoid going around in circles
14:10:27 [Ian]
IJ: I am looking for new ways to engage others and volunteering time
14:10:31 [Ian]
AdrianHB: Cool
14:10:51 [Ian]
AdrianHB: But we need also to be in fora where key players are...we need to hear from browser vendors directly, for example.
14:11:30 [Ian]
AdrianHB concrete proposal:
14:11:39 [Ian]
- our communication of this task force happens on the main list
14:11:44 [alyver]
q+
14:11:48 [Ian]
...so the meeting invitation and minutes go on the main list
14:11:50 [Ian]
+1
14:11:52 [alyver]
+1
14:11:58 [jnormore]
+1
14:12:10 [Max]
+1
14:12:22 [Ian]
ack andre
14:12:31 [Ian]
andre: I agree with AHB
14:12:33 [conorh_wp]
+1
14:12:45 [Ian]
RESOLVED: Send agendas and minutes of these calls to the main WG list
14:12:56 [Ian]
q+
14:12:57 [Ian]
ack aly
14:13:00 [Ian]
ack
14:13:02 [Ian]
ack me
14:15:08 [alyver]
alyver has left #apps
14:15:20 [Ian]
ACTION: Ian to announce the minutes of this call to the WG and plan to send agendas and minutes to that list
14:15:24 [Ian]
Topic: Next call
14:15:33 [Ian]
27 July at 2pm UTC (9am ET)
14:16:10 [Ian]
So sorry :(
14:16:22 [Ian]
The UTC time is pm UTC
14:16:25 [Ian]
The UTC time is 1pm UTC
14:16:49 [Ian]
I APOLOGIZE
14:17:33 [Ian]
rrrsagent, make minutes
14:17:36 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
14:18:29 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
14:18:36 [Ian]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:18:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-apps-minutes.html Ian
14:18:37 [Ian]
rrsagent, set logs public
14:43:00 [jnormore]
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14:59:25 [Ian]
zakim, bye
14:59:25 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Andre, Ian, Kapeng, Dapeng, Jason, Conor, Mahesh, JasonYoung
14:59:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #apps
14:59:27 [Ian]
rrsagent, bye
14:59:27 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-apps-actions.rdf :
14:59:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ian to report back to the issues list that there were no objections to the proposal [1]
14:59:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-apps-irc#T13-45-37
14:59:27 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ian to announce the minutes of this call to the WG and plan to send agendas and minutes to that list [2]
14:59:27 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/20-apps-irc#T14-15-20