14:01:32 RRSAgent has joined #exi 14:01:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-exi-irc 14:01:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:01:34 Zakim has joined #exi 14:01:36 Zakim, this will be EXIWG 14:01:36 ok, trackbot 14:01:37 Meeting: Efficient XML Interchange Working Group Teleconference 14:01:37 Date: 28 June 2016 14:03:00 dape has joined #exi 14:13:52 brutzman has joined #exi 14:21:53 scribe: TK 14:21:57 scribeNick: taki 14:27:50 Wondering if we might write up a strategy for compressing Open Web Architecture (OWA) recommendations and then seek feedback from Liam 14:28:18 ... JSON, CSS, HTML5 XHTML encoding, SVG, MathML 14:29:05 ... perhaps meeting with Liam before TPAC would be even better, then decide how to proceed next 14:29:52 Another potential TPAC topic is looking at whether any emerging XML Security activity might interrelate to EXI 14:31:28 (earlier in meeting) we agreed to meet at regular times during middle 2 weeks of July while Taki is away. DP and DB to discuss potential approaches to achieve EXI for CSS. 14:34:23 Sounds like a good idea. Do you think condensed results are compelling enough for a lightning talk as well? That might provide a setup for an EXI OWA challenge as well... 14:45:08 TPAC planning discussion. https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/schedule.html 14:47:22 Another related meeting topic: inviting experts to plan out creation of schemas for HTML5 XHTML encoding, SVG schema, and MathML RelaxNG schema -> XML schema. 14:49:01 Motivation: if we indeed pursue the creation of schemas for these important W3C recommendations, it would be good for each working group to send a representative so that the schemas are widely acceptable. 14:49:53 There might be other synergies possible as well: OWA compression, signature and encryption as a common capability. 14:50:21 Conceivably that is even a goal Recommendation as part of EXI 2 efforts. 14:52:34 DP: discussion of long attribute strings in RDF that are often uri values, might be hard to put in schema for good compaction 14:54:16 Wondering, do those attibutes often have common long uri base that might make creation of string tables for attribute bases of interest? or are they refactorable into a namespace prefix? 14:56:42 might e interesting to pursue EXI for RDF and OWL as well. Walking around the family of most-important W3C Recommendations might be a good 2017 strategy. 14:57:21 DP: noted feedback from others that they don't want an XML schema 14:57:41 is that just a preference or a problem? does XML schema limit them? 14:59:03 ... there is a difference between diligent effort to allow validation, or lack of perceived need, and whether there is a blocker to necessary expressiveness. 15:01:21 DP: hasn't heard any specific objections. has heard of preferences regarding XML Schema 1.1, but mostly heard that it was more work than perceived benefit. 15:02:46 wondering if there is a list of changes in XML Schema 1.1 from version 1.0? 15:03:39 Altova blog: http://blog.altova.com/what-s-new-in-xml-schema-11/ 15:10:07 we agreed to add XML Schema 1.1 to the EXI 2 collection of ideas 15:11:38 Regarding "perceived value" of XML schemas: yes it is a curious state of affairs that other XML-related working groups don't see the value of validation. 15:12:17 Nevertheless it would be relatively easy for us to create working schemas, and ask the other groups to review and/or improve them. 15:13:00 In that way, we could build schemas that are not only tested with EXI but perhaps even precompressed for use with EXI. 15:14:41 Another related point is that lacking a schema is somewhat similar to saying the following are unimportant: strict validation, signature, encryption and compression 15:15:20 DP: there is a burden to sharing and correctly maintaining a schema 15:15:48 wondering isn't that fairly infrequent though, corresponding to publication of a REC version? 15:17:26 DP: informal testing of an experimental XHTML schema did not show significant compaction because majority of page information is not structural 15:18:16 OK interesting... can you share that draft XHTML schema you created? 15:18:40 DP: yes, it was a few years back... will check 15:20:28 of related interest: there is a simple path for any HTML, valid or not, to become XHTML: simply load it into the DOM, as specified by HTML5, then serialize it back out as XHTML encoding. 15:21:56 Anyway I think it is an interesting project to collect suitable schemas for all of these major RECs so that data archives of optionally compressed/signed/enrypted documents are possible 15:22:54 ... and also that does not really interfere with any other working group's lack of collective interest in specifying a corresponding XML schema for their RECs. 15:23:40 ... so EXI working group could proceed independently while inviting participation and review, without creating any conflict. 15:24:11 ... perhaps some "best practices" might be gleaned from such an effort as well. 15:25:13 BTW we have a use case for comprehensive validation/compression/security: creating online archives of additive manufacturing (AM) 3D models 15:25:59 ... example: NIH 3D Print Exchange http://3dprint.nih.gov 15:26:55 ... security is needed for medical-related models, and compression will also likely be needed when we create larger models such as 3D scans and 3D-printable versions 15:28:22 Interesting xhtml basic schema, thanks. From that document: This is the XML Schema driver for XHTML Basic 1.0. Please use this namespace for XHTML elements: "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" $Id: xhtml-basic10.xsd,v 1.7 2005/09/26 22:54:53 ahby Exp $ 15:32:43 I had one use case that uses rigorous HTML validation through XHTML schemas. It was a part of XBRL standard. 15:33:04 I also noticed the compiled grammars for XHTML schema was rather large. 15:33:18 I did not nail down the reason why the grammars were large. 15:33:43 XBRL, unfortunately, does not put priority in compacting their documents. 15:37:41 rrsagent, create minutes 15:37:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/28-exi-minutes.html taki 15:41:11 taki has left #exi 16:08:49 Zakim has left #exi