See also: IRC log
+ Laura
<scribe> Scribe: Laura
<allanj> 2. Width is @@user adjustable between no less than 5 characters and @@ no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK).
Jim: proposing inserting a clause.
Scott: 80 characters is
outdated.
... doesn’t know if we can define something that makes
sense.
<allanj> scott: like the range, perhaps a bottom of 10 characters, and with upper range of X, because of wide monitors.
Scott: Most imporant is scaling.
shawn: don’t know why we whant to lower characters
<allanj> scott: optimize for some range, a variety of widths, support flexibility where we can.
scott: want to encourage flexibility.
jim: would like to fit into existing SCs if possible.
awk: big discussion around SC numbering
<ScottM> Width is user adjustable, optimized for 80 characters
awk: large push to not change what wcag has now.
<ScottM> but then what does optimized mean?
WCAG 2.1 SC Numbering: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_Numbering
<ScottM> I'd be fine with that
<allanj> jim: width is user adjustable. with a lowest range
scott: hard to define a number
<allanj> scott: this is a AAA, so never checked line length.
shawn: user need for short line widths
<ScottM> minimum of 1 word?
<allanj> proposal: width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound.
jim: 148 is where we may want to
try to put most things in.
... been sending items to the list. would like comments.
RESOLUTION: 1.4.8.2 width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound
RESOLUTION: 1.4.8.2 width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound
<shawn> ^^ that is draft for further consideration
jim: falls under WCAG 1.4.8
... 2 approaches
shawn: needs to be a new SC
<allanj> shawn: not just blocks of text. talking about the entire page
scott: muli-column is very difficult to use
<allanj> scott: multicolumn is very difficult with screen mag.
scott: single col is much easier
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say single column for blocks of text is probably A - whereas for all content maybe AA or AAA
great. thanks.
<allanj> shawn: 2 SC, one A for blocks of text, one AA or AAA for all content/page
scott: discourage for multi-columns for text
<allanj> shawn: allow users to have blocks of text as a single column
scott: data tables are different
<allanj> shawn: what is it called when you make a multicolumn page with nav etc into a single columns? linearize content?
<allanj> users can make main content single column
scott: screen magnifier can't reflow
<allanj> single column of X width
<allanj> Main content can be displayed as a single column that does not require the user to scroll horizontally to read a line of text on a full-screen window regardless of viewport or device size.
<allanj> shawn: what about footer with 4 columns of links...that needs to reflow
<ScottM> reflow document into a single column?
<allanj> shawn: def of blocks of text more than one sentence of text.
<ScottM> linear content can be displayed in a single column?
<allanj> shawn:
shawn: ... block of text can be presented in a single column.
scott: may not want to limit to text
shawn: may need to address other content separately
scott: it is still the same problem.
<ScottM> +1
<allanj> Proposal: Block of text can be displayed as a single column.
shawn: text can be displayed in a single column.
<ScottM> +1
<allanj> +1
+1
<ScottM> my graphics are feeling left out :)
<shawn> for a draft for further consideration -- realizing that ther are other issues that also need to be addressed - including images AND overall page content
shawn: is that level A or AA?
Scott: A seems reasonable.
<allanj> +1
<allanj> folks with cognitive issues have real difficulty with multicolumn
<ScottM> A
+1
<shawn> multicolumn and screen magnification (especailly with any cognitive disability) can be totally unusable / in accessible
<shawn> +1 for A
shawn: if it a new SC we can expand to images
<allanj> shawn: ideally everything on the page linearized so you don't miss things on the right side of page, and left justified
Scott: github is a good
example
... miss items if you don’t scroll
jim: mobile sites are usually single column
<allanj> andrew: mobile view too prescriptive
<shawn> Users can choose all content linearized in a single column and left justified
awk: need to define what is needed. not specify how it is achieved
<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single column and left aligned.
<allanj> lists should still be indented according to their semantics
<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single column and similarly aligned.
<shawn> :-)
<shawn> issue is things like groups of controlas that are right aligned -- like in GitHub: Watch, Start, Fork
<allanj> awk: I18N issues, ltr and rtl languages and justification
shawn: with screen magnification right aligned items may be missed
<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single column and with the same primary alignment.
<allanj> right aligned things are there because the scroll bar is there, and scrolling mechanism (scrollbar) is on the right side because it is at the end of what you read
<ScottM> I like primary alignment
shawn: same primary alignment
<allanj> shawn: justification follows the same primary alignment as the base language
<shawn> Proposal for working draft for now: Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single column, with the same primary alignment.
<allanj> FF move scroll bar to left side https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/995089
scott: scrollbar provide indicators of more content.
shawn: this point is
findability
... be as unperceptive as we can
<allanj> discussion of reading all right aligned page
scott: highly variable
... should follow the reading order of the language.
laura: Users can view all content linearized in a single column. Justification follows the same primary alignment as the base language.
<allanj> AWK: developers will say...just turn styles off.
<ScottM> I don't want to have to turn off styles
<ScottM> that introduces other problems
awk: people will address this with browsers allowing you to turn off styles.
<allanj> shawn: that would work. that would be minimum, would need advisory
<shawn> s/ maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory to do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a button
scott: if you turn off styles, it
turns off functionality of the page.
... should not have to make custom style sheet.
<allanj> scott: styles tied to functionality, if styles off, could break page
awk: alignment by be tied into functionality
<shawn> s/maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory to do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a button
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/that was draft for discussion/^^ that is draft for further consideration/ Succeeded: s/content maybe A or AA/content maybe AA or AAA/ Succeeded: s/ ontent/ content/ Succeeded: s/go to every section of text to choose single column// Succeeded: s/muli-col by section// Succeeded: s/on the page in one column/on the page linearized/ Succeeded: s/left justified/left aligned/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/ maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory to do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a button WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory to do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a button Found Scribe: Laura Inferring ScribeNick: laura Default Present: allanj, Laura, Scott, AWK Present: allanj Scott AWK Regrets: Wayne JohnR Found Date: 23 Jun 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]