See also: IRC log
<scribe> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-1533
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement Webdriver automated accessibilty testing framework for testing ARIA in ATK/AT-SPI -- due 2016-05-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
JD: This is a work in
progress.
... I have started the porting to GNU/Linux.
... In a nutshell, it looks awesome, but I think we will
probably want to make some changes/tweaks.
... One being nitty-level stuff, like a common/shared API that
handles differences in exposure in the various platforms (e.g.
interfaces versus patterns).
... The other potentially being additions needed to test what
we need to test in ARIA.
... But I won't be sure about that until I make more progress
on the porting.
... But, again, what Microsoft did is pretty cool.
JS: Change the due date or weekly reminders?
JD: Up to you. I'm actively working on it now.
JS: I could move it to the 5th of
July -- or the 12th.
... If you want it added to the agenda, just say so.
JD: Perfect.
JS: My other question is: Are you greating a github repo for GNU/Linux?
JD: My plan is ultimately for it to be in github.
CS: I was thinking that the higher-level abstraction is called ARIA 2.0.
RS: Control Patterns would fall
under the branding for ARIA 2.0.
... It's to look at things beyond just ARIA.
CS: Control Patterns and
Interfaces seem fairly similar.
... And this is why I was thinking it's part of ARIA 2.0.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: for example, we have new
values for aria-haspopup
... in the test, the way we get those values is dependent on
the AAPI.
CS: It sounds like you want
something that works quick-n-dirty in the short term.
... The way we did that is consider a mapping from the general
ARIA to the platform specific values. UIA in our case.
... I would think you can do that platform specific stuff in
ATK/AT-SPI.
... I don't want to get sucked into a full blown abstract
generalizaion of these test cases.
JD: I hear you, and we can do the
quick-n-dirty approach.
... But, I'm not yet at a point to say exactly how to do
that.
... My plan is to contact your colleague and submit
patches.
CS: do you have examples of what you are thinking of?
JD: I haven't gotten that far
yet.
... My plan is to figure out how to do this, and submit
patches.
CS: What you say sounds interesting. I would like to see it more concretely.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: I'll bring this up again July
12th.
... Sooner if you let me know.
<clown> action-1696
<trackbot> action-1696 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-keyshortcuts -- due 2016-06-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1696
JS: There has been some
discussion with Alex Surkove about this.
... This is on Joanie to come up with a way to expose
aria-keyshortcuts.
... Joanie's proposal recently was to use the AtkAction
interface.
... AtkAction has name, description, is connected to an
accessible, and also has a do_action method.
... The user can interact with the widget via this
interface.
... One of Joanie's proposals was to use this as a means to
expose the keyshortcuts.
... But the problem with this is that the action cannot
actually be performed.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: Originally, I emailed IA2
list for synchronicity between IA2 and ATK.
... Jamie said that IA2 already have accKeyShortcut
property.
... So, I said ATK coudl either use an object attribute or
AtkAction.
... But object attributes are not performant. AtkAction would
be better.
... I asked Alex what he would want to do.
... And, he said AtkAction is fine, and the browser will guess
what action to perform, or send a click action
CS: We analyzed a whole bunch of
stuff, and mapped it to a click.
... But we did not do this for aria-keyshortcuts.
JD: That is how my platform
works.
... I don't think we can use an action for ATK for
aria-keyshortcuts.
... I'm landing on just using object attributes.
CS: We are not doing anything
except putting the string in a property.
... Actually, real widgets' shortcuts work the same way — it's
descriptive. It doesn't do anything.
JD: I can imagine authors
scripting multiple keyboard shortcuts without there being any
widget present at all.
... I'm going to email Alex, and just say object attribute.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: I replied to Alex that there
might not even be a click handler.
... So doing a click might result in nothing.
CS: There are a lot of cases
where there is a click handler.
... So that's why we went with that.
... It usually will do what the author has already done.
JS: There's even a section in the Core AAM about setting click actions as the default action.
<clown> http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_actions
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_actions
CS: That was always a fallback that we intended to improve.
JS: But what's here is a SHOULD.
CS: In the short term, having it as a descriptive string sounds like the right thing to do.
JS: I'll leave it to Joanie to
follow up with Alex.
... And I will leave the due date as-is.
JD: I think this is ready for you
Joseph.
... It's expose as an object attribute
... The exact name is, I think, keyshortcuts (i.e. chop off
"aria-")
... You should probably verify this.
JS: I will try to have this done next week.
<clown> action-1706
<trackbot> action-1706 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due 2016-06-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1706
JS: I got the statement from Cynthia a while back.
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/dd087eaa68b9936bc8173ae92d3ec47b570860d6
JS: I added that statement to the
spec (URL above).
... I did that last week.
... You (Cynthia) can delete your branch after you verify
it.
CS: Looks good to me.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/Action-1706/core-aam/core-aam.html#intro_aapi
JS: I manually squashed and merged it.
CS: I'm also going to close the pull request.
JS: And I'm going to close the action.
<clown> action-2065?
<trackbot> action-2065 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add this statement to the core-aam: “user agents are not expected to validate that the active descendant is a descendant of the focused container. “ -- due 2016-05-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2065
JS: This is your pull request for
the statement regarding user agents not needing to validate
activedescendant.
... I've merged in your text and added the link we discussed
last week.
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/b51868eca0acc75bfe69601012437f0cef404001
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
JS: It's at the URL above. In the
first paragraph, second sentence.
... (Reads outloud)
... Any objections?
CS: Looks good to me.
JS: You can close your branch
(Cynthia).
... I will close the action.
<clown> action-1739
<trackbot> action-1739 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide all the missing atk/at-spi2 interfaces for joseph -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1739
JS: I'm supposed to add, based on
Joanie's advice, all the relevant interfaces.
... I've started, but not yet finished.
... So nothing to review yet.
... We'll come back to it next week.
<clown> action-2022?
<trackbot> action-2022 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Followup with alex about ia2 discussion re: adding a landmark role, similar to atk -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2022
JS: I came across this action, which I think is obsolete.
RS: We discussed this with
Alex.
... We got agreement, but I don't know if they did it yet.
JS: The mappings are already
using it in the Core AAM.
... We'll find out when we do the tests.
... I suggest we close action-2022.
... Objections?
(None)
<clown> action-2056?
<trackbot> action-2056 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056
JS: Before Rich went on vacation,
he gave me some text.
... I did that but would like your (Rich's) review.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupDialog
JS: The first one is at the above URL.
RS: I had put stuff in the spec for those things.
JS: Right, and I've merged them
in.
... I think we have everyone's but Apple's.
JD: There's an email on the list for that.
RS: The reason we have this in
here is because of combo box.
... We want to avoid people getting confused by having people
wind up in, say, a grid after activating a combobox.
JS: I think James is going to
come back with you can find out via examining the object
associated with aria-controls/aria-owns.
... So an AT can already figure this out.
RS: So have them map it to true.
JS: I think I just copied the "true" values for AXAPI. Or you did, Rich.
RS: I did.
... As long as VoiceOver can do the extra work, then there
should be no problem.
JS: Should I add a statement to this effect?
RS + JD: No. That's what VoiceOver does. It's not a mapping.
JS: We cannot close this because James has an objection.
<clown> Of note is that this change is not backwards-compatible with ARIA 1.1 because authors changing aria-haspopup="true" to one of the new enumerated types will find that this breaks all current implementations. It will currently be treated as aria-haspopup="false" (the default value for ARIA 1.0).
JS: He also said the above.
... I don't think that's right.
RS: I don't either.
<bgaraventa1979> sorry guys getting booted from the room
<clown> "When exposing as a platform API Boolean https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#def_state, treat "", "undefined" or no https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#def_attribute present as false. Treat any other value as true."
JD: I think James is correct.
<clown> "When exposing as a platform API Boolean state, treat "", "undefined" or no attribute present as false. Treat any other value as true."
<clown> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
CS: For our platform, we plan on making everything that isn't "false" map to "true"
JS: I found the above quote from
the 1.0 UAIG.
... Is there any conflict between the ARIA spec and mapping
spec regarding error handling for booleans?
RS: I think we're fine.
JS: I'm tempted to put together
some markup to test this with Safari.
... And see how it gets mapped currently.
... But I don't know if I'll have time to do this.
RS: I think James' issue is
addressed.
... And there's no API change.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/not needing/user agents not needing/ Succeeded: s/this quote/the above quote/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie ScribeNicks: clown, joanie Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 21 Jun 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/21-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]