13:44:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
13:44:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-irc
13:44:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:44:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
13:44:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:44:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:44:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:44:42 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2016
13:46:13 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
13:46:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
13:46:31 <allanj> Chair: Jim and Andrew
13:46:40 <allanj> present+
13:46:46 <allanj> zakim, who is here
13:46:46 <Zakim> allanj, you need to end that query with '?'
13:46:51 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
13:46:51 <Zakim> Present: allanj
13:46:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, allanj, shawn, trackbot
14:00:04 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 35 Update information on acuity
14:00:05 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 42 3.5.1 - poor example illustration
14:00:07 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 43 figure descriptions
14:00:08 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 45 Note to tool developers not a user need - delete or edit?
14:00:10 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 46 color vision tweaks to match others
14:00:11 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 49 2.1 Scope - cognitive disabilities
14:00:13 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline
14:23:24 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: See e-mail for call-in info
14:26:58 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
14:27:50 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
14:28:10 <shawn> present+
14:28:36 <shawn> present+ JohnRochford
14:28:47 <ScottMcCormack> ScottMcCormack has joined #lvtf
14:29:16 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
14:31:52 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #lvtf
14:32:18 <shawn> [ when you send requests for comments, you can list it here so we have a record of it ]
14:32:24 <shawn> [ ... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Comments ]
14:32:55 <shawn> present+ Wayne, Scott, Laura
14:33:06 <laura> Scribe List: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
14:33:20 <allanj> zakim, agenda
14:33:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', allanj
14:33:25 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
14:33:25 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
14:33:26 <shawn> present+ Laura
14:33:27 <Zakim> 1. Issue 35 Update information on acuity [from allanj]
14:33:27 <Zakim> 2. Issue 42 3.5.1 - poor example illustration [from allanj]
14:33:27 <Zakim> 3. Issue 43 figure descriptions [from allanj]
14:33:27 <Zakim> 4. Issue 45 Note to tool developers not a user need - delete or edit? [from allanj]
14:33:27 <Zakim> 5. Issue 46 color vision tweaks to match others [from allanj]
14:33:28 <Zakim> 6. Issue 49 2.1 Scope - cognitive disabilities [from allanj]
14:33:28 <Zakim> 7. Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline [from allanj]
14:33:57 <laura> Scribe: Laura
14:33:58 <shawn> present+ Jeanne
14:34:04 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:34:04 <Zakim> Present: allanj, shawn, JohnRochford, Wayne, Scott, Laura, Jeanne
14:34:11 <laura> Zakim, next item
14:34:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Issue 35 Update information on acuity" taken up [from allanj]
14:34:17 <allanj> topic: Issue 35 Update information on acuity
14:34:24 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/35
14:35:41 <allanj> proposed edit:Some low visual acuity can be corrected with glasses, contact lenses, or surgery – and some cannot. Therefore, some people will not see small text or fine details no matter what.
14:36:11 <shawn> s/proposed edit:/straw proposal:
14:36:18 <ScottMcCormack> I like it
14:36:21 <laura> Jim: Some discussion on the topic. Shawn has a proposed edit.
14:36:37 <shawn> s/proposed edit/straw proposal
14:36:40 <JohnRochford> I suggest "at all" rather than "no matter what".
14:36:48 <laura> …any thoughts?
14:37:24 <shawn> Some low visual acuity can be corrected with glasses, contact lenses, or surgery – and some cannot. Therefore, some people will not see small text or fine details at all.
14:37:29 <jeanne> +1 at all
14:38:19 <laura> RESOLUTION: Change intro to: Some low visual acuity can be corrected with glasses, contact lenses, or surgery – and some cannot. Therefore, some people will not see small text or fine details at all.
14:38:24 <Wayne> +1
14:39:34 <laura> Zakim, next item
14:39:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 42 3.5.1 - poor example illustration" taken up [from allanj]
14:39:39 <allanj> topic: Issue 42 3.5.1 - poor example illustration
14:39:47 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/42
14:40:58 <shawn> +1 to that response
14:41:18 <allanj> +
14:41:21 <allanj> +1
14:41:30 <laura> Jim: Comment on contrast of illustration of Wayne’s style sheet. It is a real style sheet. He needs it to read.
14:42:11 <laura> Shawn: maybe change the figcaption?
14:42:18 <ScottMcCormack> does this figure meet color contrast requirements?
14:42:58 <laura> wayne: it is a little above minimum.
14:43:58 <ScottMcCormack> note that a user’s custom style may not meet color contrast
14:44:13 <ScottMcCormack> +1
14:44:16 <shawn> +1
14:44:30 <laura> Jim: preface with it with “This a real style sheet ueed by a person with low vision.”
14:45:07 <ScottMcCormack> A user’s style sheet meets the user’s need and does not need to meet WCAG requirements
14:45:45 <allanj> +1
14:45:59 <ScottMcCormack> maybe include a couple user examples to show some wide variations
14:47:33 <allanj> action: Jim to respond to commenter on Issue 42
14:47:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Respond to commenter on issue 42 [on Jim Allan - due 2016-04-20].
14:48:29 <laura> RESOLUTION: Will preface with something to the affect that “This a real style sheet used by a person with low vision.”
14:48:43 <laura> Zakim, next item
14:48:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 43 figure descriptions" taken up [from allanj]
14:48:51 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/43
14:48:57 <allanj> topic:  Issue 43 figure descriptions
14:50:22 <laura> Jim: Jim stated on writing long descriptions. Laura added some.
14:51:25 <shawn> present+ AWK(second_part)
14:51:28 <ScottMcCormack> would our audiance need such long descriptions?
14:51:33 <allanj> laura and wayne think they are useful
14:51:50 <shawn> +1 to Scott
14:52:14 <laura> Jim: Useful and they are already done.
14:52:15 <JohnRochford> -1 to Scott
14:53:52 <allanj> shawn: what is the use case? would someone need the details?
14:54:12 <allanj> wayne: when they cant see them.
14:54:43 <allanj> awk: this section is to explain the issue, not to get into details.
14:55:24 <allanj> ... all see color differently. these are simulations.
14:55:52 <allanj> ... perhaps a couple of examples - yellow, pale yellow, pink, light gray.
14:56:29 <allanj> ... point is ... people see colors differently, and need to able to adjust colors to meet needs.
14:57:05 <allanj> laura: information is useful...for those who don't have full color perception.
14:57:23 <allanj> awk: make simpler color wheels.
14:57:49 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Color-Blindness-Table
14:57:58 <allanj> ... rainbow ROYGBIV
14:58:23 <ScottMcCormack> Color names are not always meaningful to people. Describe the key differences such as reds or blues are missing
14:58:33 <allanj> ... worry about descriptions. what do those words mean?
14:58:52 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
14:58:54 <allanj> laura: perhaps we take them out.
14:59:10 <allanj> js: think they are useful.
14:59:50 <allanj> jr: these are user needs. should provide information.;
15:01:01 <laura> jon: why are we referencing color wheels at all?
15:01:55 <shawn> q+
15:02:04 <shawn> ack me
15:02:12 <laura> jim: we have the info. What do we do?
15:02:54 <laura> Shawn: If we had something simpler?
15:03:17 <ScottMcCormack> Give details about what changes for each simulated wheel
15:03:24 <allanj> RGB
15:03:32 <laura> …maybe do the same with fewer colors.
15:04:35 <shawn> s/If we had something simpler?/If we had something simpler? Would 3 colors get across the point?
15:05:05 <laura> wayne: if we think it is important. why not describe ot to all?
15:05:15 <ScottMcCormack> Fig5: “Shows red-green color blindness- Reds and greens are missing replaced by shades of yellow with green and dark red being the same shade of yellow"
15:05:26 <ScottMcCormack> something like that
15:06:30 <laura> JS: We lose the impact by simplfying it.
15:06:50 <shawn> q+
15:07:25 <shawn> ack me
15:07:48 <jeanne> +1 for not being in the main document - a link to an appendix is good.
15:08:03 <shawn> shawn: I won't object to it being not in the main doc (appendix or something)
15:09:05 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Color-Blindness-Table
15:09:35 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Color-Blindness-Table
15:09:47 <allanj> add clock positions
15:10:11 <ScottMcCormack> q+
15:11:22 <allanj> ack s
15:11:35 <laura> Scott: very educational
15:12:05 <laura> …information may get lost.
15:12:41 <shawn> ACTION: Shawn tweak color wheel alts - see Scott's suggestion in minutes
15:12:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Tweak color wheel alts - see scott's suggestion in minutes [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-04-20].
15:12:59 <shawn> +1 wayne to intro sentence
15:13:09 <laura> wayne: maybe add a sentence.
15:13:13 <allanj> +1 wayne
15:13:24 <laura> +1
15:13:31 <jeanne> +1 wayne's intro sentence
15:13:47 <JohnRochford> +1 to sentence Wayne is trying to recall
15:13:48 <shawn> ACTION Shawn before color wheel examples, add an intro sentence about this is what people see (see minutes with Wayne's idea)
15:13:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Before color wheel examples, add an intro sentence about this is what people see (see minutes with wayne's idea) [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-04-20].
15:14:24 <Wayne> Colors that are different for people with full color perception are the same for different types of color blindness.
15:15:23 <jeanne> action: Jeanne will add the gray percentage instead of the hex values.  And the clock positions.
15:15:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Will add the gray percentage instead of the hex values.  and the clock positions. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-04-20].
15:17:31 <laura> RESOLUTION: Will update table, alts and images descriptions.
15:17:49 <laura> Zakim, next item
15:17:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Issue 45 Note to tool developers not a user need - delete or edit?" taken up [from allanj]
15:17:51 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/45
15:17:54 <allanj> Action: Jim create appendix for detailed image descriptions from issue 43, and action-49
15:17:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Create appendix for detailed image descriptions from issue 43, and action-49 [on Jim Allan - due 2016-04-20].
15:18:05 <allanj> topic: Issue 45 Note to tool developers not a user need - delete or edit?
15:18:26 <shawn> s/Will update table, alts and images descriptions/Will update table, alts and images descriptions - and add appendix with detailed image descriptions
15:19:45 <ScottMcCormack> +1 for edit
15:20:12 <laura> Jim: perhaps an edit “It is easier to pick more readable fonts if each font name in the list is in its font — e.g., Times, Veranda, Courier (these should be in their font to illustrate) — so users can see how each font looks before choosing it.”
15:20:31 <ScottMcCormack> I really like being able to preview fonts before I pick something I can’t see
15:20:42 <laura> AWK: would vote for throwing it out.
15:21:14 <laura> …worries that it is a distraction.
15:21:23 <ScottMcCormack> Font names don’t convey information about how the font looks
15:21:53 <shawn> [ /me waffling back and forth on this one! ]
15:22:14 <ScottMcCormack> and one could end up with an unreadable page and limited ability to switch out
15:22:29 <JohnRochford> Gotta go folks. Until next week...
15:22:30 <ScottMcCormack> yes
15:22:33 <laura> shawn: is this more of an issue for people with low vision?
15:23:18 <laura> JS: Choice is important to someone with albinism.
15:24:44 <laura> Scott: has been in situations where font choice it is important.
15:25:33 <laura> AWK: where does that actually happen? maybe have another preview. What is the need?
15:25:43 <shawn> Scott: if change the font to an unreadable one, then maybe can't even read it enough to change it back
15:25:46 <ScottMcCormack> +q
15:26:05 <shawn> q+
15:26:06 <shawn> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#font
15:26:12 <shawn> ack scott
15:27:01 <shawn> q+ to propose "see font before making selection" (rather than specific in font) -- keep as note but not specific user need?
15:27:02 <shawn> ack me
15:27:02 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to propose "see font before making selection" (rather than specific in font) -- keep as note but not specific user need?
15:27:09 <laura> Scott: we don’t want to restrict people to 1 solution but a preview is a possible solution.
15:28:23 <laura> shawn: maybe change what we have to be more generic. Not prescriptive.
15:28:26 <allanj> +1 to shawn
15:29:53 <laura> AWK: can live with it.
15:30:40 <laura> …maybe we are describing a different user need.
15:31:58 <laura> Wayne: maybe we need to think about the big user need.
15:32:22 <laura> Jim: propose we make an issue
15:32:52 <shawn> +!
15:33:13 <shawn> s/+!/
15:33:44 <laura> RESOLUTION: Will make the editorial change on issue 45 per minutes.
15:33:47 <shawn> q+
15:34:04 <shawn> ack me
15:35:38 <laura> Jim: Let’s work in Github and try to get work done prior to call.
15:36:20 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
15:36:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-minutes.html laura
15:36:36 <laura>  trackbot, end meeting
15:36:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:36:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been allanj, shawn, JohnRochford, Wayne, Scott, Laura, Jeanne, AWK(second_part), !
15:36:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:36:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:36:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:36:45 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-actions.rdf :
15:36:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim to respond to commenter on Issue 42 [1]
15:36:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-irc#T14-47-33
15:36:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shawn tweak color wheel alts - see Scott's suggestion in minutes [2]
15:36:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-irc#T15-12-41
15:36:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeanne will add the gray percentage instead of the hex values.  And the clock positions. [3]
15:36:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-irc#T15-15-23
15:36:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim create appendix for detailed image descriptions from issue 43, and action-49 [4]
15:36:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/13-lvtf-irc#T15-17-54