16:59:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
16:59:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-irc
16:59:16 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
17:01:16 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
17:01:31 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid
17:01:31 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review section 2.14 Actionable, Sortable Column Header in a Grid https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#sortablegrid
17:01:31 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
17:01:41 <jamesn> Agenda+ MathML issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290
17:01:41 <jamesn> Agenda+ updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark
17:02:06 <jamesn> regrets+ Leonie Jemma Matt
17:02:53 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:03:02 <jamesn> present+ AnnAbbott
17:03:07 <jamesn> present+ Teresa
17:03:11 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #aria-apg
17:04:19 <jamesn> present+ JonGunderson
17:06:36 <boerst> boerst has joined #aria-apg
17:07:03 <jamesn> agenda?
17:08:06 <MichielBijl> New meeting URL, for next meeting mail: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4b54b847795d432ef8a2ba82e488fea2
17:09:57 <jamesn> scribe: jamesn
17:10:02 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 5
17:10:02 <Zakim> agendum 5. "updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark" taken up
17:10:05 <Zakim> ... [from jamesn]
17:11:17 <IanPouncey> present+ IanPouncey
17:14:08 <jamesn> jn: describes the changes
17:14:22 <jamesn> jn: added 2nd bullet to Step 3.
17:14:36 <Birkir> Birkir has joined #aria-apg
17:14:44 <jamesn> aa: sugest adding 2nd sentence to bullet to find more information.
17:15:05 <jamesn> tb: add a 2nd sentence to point to section below
17:15:07 <Birkir> ...I can't believe our WebEx client has an inaccessible CAPTCHA .. but it does.
17:15:49 <Birkir> present+ Birkir
17:16:02 <jamesn> jg: would like to take another shot at the example based on the current text
17:16:53 <jamesn> jg: have some ideas how to organize the example so more useful
17:17:02 <jamesn> jg: will try to get done by friday
17:17:14 <jamesn> jn: got rid of tables
17:17:37 <jamesn> jn: removed the section linking to aria spec and just linked the term
17:18:30 <jamesn> aa: we called it out specifically before
17:19:20 <jamesn> jn: editorial decision. Doesn't change the text of the document
17:19:29 <jamesn> jn: need to have the document to be consistent
17:19:54 <jamesn> tb: how about an intro section.
17:20:15 <jamesn> jn: assuming anyone reads it
17:22:21 <jamesn> tb: we have to assume some level of intelligence
17:22:32 <jamesn> bg: how about changing to banner role
17:23:06 <jamesn> jg: more concerned about linking from the spec to the APG
17:23:26 <jamesn> jn: I don't think we can link from the spec to the APG
17:24:19 <jamesn> tb: sometimes i find too many words loses the crispness of thinks
17:24:25 <jamesn> s/thinks/things/
17:24:48 <jamesn> aa: people who are not savvy to w3c things aren't aware that there is a difference between the APG and the spec
17:24:57 <jamesn> tb: that is an issue beyond this
17:25:11 <jamesn> tb: a few lines in this document - how to use this docuemnt
17:26:53 <jamesn> jn: i was wrong about not being able to link to the APG from the spec
17:28:23 <jamesn> JN: my opinion is that making links to the spec called-out explicitly just makes the document longer and not more clear.
17:28:41 <jamesn> JG: something like really good examples will get linked to
17:28:51 <jamesn> JG: most people will come through the examples
17:29:11 <jamesn> JG: the oaa website can just fwd people to the w3c examples
17:30:57 <jamesn> JN: removed patterns row heading and moved into prose in the top.
17:31:26 <jamesn> JN: then added HTML5 techniques and ARIA techniques sub heading
17:33:07 <jamesn> JN: <making changes live>
17:33:25 <jamesn> JG: first bullet - Break the page into perceivable areas of content.
17:33:52 <jamesn> JN: good with that
17:35:55 <jamesn> agenda?
17:37:11 <jamesn> TB: what is the value of 2nd bullet
17:37:22 <jamesn> AA: could help define landmarks?
17:37:29 <jamesn> TB: I don't know what it means
17:38:33 <Birkir> .. landmarks are a way to create same division of content programmatically, e.g. for those who are unable to see the visual distinction.
17:38:55 <jamesn> JG: to me this brings in designers
17:39:16 <jamesn> JG: we want to not just talk to developers but also designers
17:41:28 <jamesn> TB: <li>Break the page into perceivable areas of content which typically, designers indicate visually using alignment and spacing.</li>
17:42:39 <jamesn> JN: sold
17:43:09 <jamesn> agenda?
17:43:15 <jamesn> zakim, close item 5
17:43:15 <Zakim> agendum 5, updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark, closed
17:43:18 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:43:18 <Zakim> 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
17:43:29 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 3
17:43:29 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
17:43:50 <jamesn> JN: any updates?
17:43:51 <jamesn> no
17:44:02 <jamesn> zakim, close item 3
17:44:02 <Zakim> agendum 3, Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status, closed
17:44:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:44:04 <Zakim> 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
17:44:07 <jamesn> agenda?
17:45:00 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 4
17:45:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "MathML issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290" taken up [from jamesn]
17:45:16 <jamesn> jn: does anyone know anything about mathml?
17:45:34 <jamesn> aa: i know nothing about mathml
17:46:14 <jamesn> BG: MSFT said they will not support it. The Moz implementation has >130 issues logged against it which makes it unuseable
17:46:22 <jamesn> BG: most use mathjax
17:46:44 <jamesn> JG: LaTEX and MathML are the 2 used
17:47:00 <jamesn> JN: Q is what does role=math mean
17:47:34 <jamesn> JN: I don't think we have expertise in Math
17:47:59 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290
17:49:21 <jamesn> JN: need to either fix the example or remove it. Need a good math example for role=math (if one exists).
17:49:32 <jamesn> JG: need to find out if it helps anyone or not
17:49:41 <jamesn> JG: being in higher ed math is a big deal
17:49:58 <jamesn> JG: have people doing things with accessible math
17:50:09 <jamesn> JG: have some specialists in this
17:50:37 <jamesn> BG: I worked in accessible math for a while
17:50:52 <jamesn> BG: so i can do some of that
17:52:02 <jamesn> JN: editors are looking for recommendations as to how to resolve this
17:52:34 <jamesn> JN: please make updates in issue 290
17:52:53 <jamesn> JG: everyone says you need to use mathjax for math on the web
17:53:54 <jamesn> JN: need to ensure that we don't over-complicate things
17:54:46 <jamesn> JN: thanks Jon and Birhkir
17:54:59 <jamesn> s/Birhkir/Birkir/
17:56:12 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:56:12 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
17:56:13 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:56:13 <Zakim> 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
17:56:16 <jamesn> agenda?
17:57:48 <jongund> I need to go today
18:02:02 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/323
18:02:05 <MichielBijl> @annabbott, if you go to https://github.com/; there is a form on the frontpage
18:03:46 <jamesn> zakim, please part
18:03:46 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, Teresa, JonGunderson, IanPouncey, Birkir
18:03:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:03:51 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:04:00 <jamesn> Meeting: ARIA APG TF
18:04:07 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
18:04:09 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn