IRC log of aria-apg on 2016-04-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:59:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 16:59:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-irc
- 16:59:16 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 17:01:16 [jongund]
- jongund has joined #aria-apg
- 17:01:31 [jamesn]
- Agenda+ Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid
- 17:01:31 [jamesn]
- Agenda+ Review section 2.14 Actionable, Sortable Column Header in a Grid https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#sortablegrid
- 17:01:31 [jamesn]
- Agenda+ Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
- 17:01:41 [jamesn]
- Agenda+ MathML issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290
- 17:01:41 [jamesn]
- Agenda+ updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark
- 17:02:06 [jamesn]
- regrets+ Leonie Jemma Matt
- 17:02:53 [jamesn]
- present+ JamesNurthen
- 17:03:02 [jamesn]
- present+ AnnAbbott
- 17:03:07 [jamesn]
- present+ Teresa
- 17:03:11 [IanPouncey]
- IanPouncey has joined #aria-apg
- 17:04:19 [jamesn]
- present+ JonGunderson
- 17:06:36 [boerst]
- boerst has joined #aria-apg
- 17:07:03 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:08:06 [MichielBijl]
- New meeting URL, for next meeting mail: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4b54b847795d432ef8a2ba82e488fea2
- 17:09:57 [jamesn]
- scribe: jamesn
- 17:10:02 [jamesn]
- zakim, take up item 5
- 17:10:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark" taken up
- 17:10:05 [Zakim]
- ... [from jamesn]
- 17:11:17 [IanPouncey]
- present+ IanPouncey
- 17:14:08 [jamesn]
- jn: describes the changes
- 17:14:22 [jamesn]
- jn: added 2nd bullet to Step 3.
- 17:14:36 [Birkir]
- Birkir has joined #aria-apg
- 17:14:44 [jamesn]
- aa: sugest adding 2nd sentence to bullet to find more information.
- 17:15:05 [jamesn]
- tb: add a 2nd sentence to point to section below
- 17:15:07 [Birkir]
- ...I can't believe our WebEx client has an inaccessible CAPTCHA .. but it does.
- 17:15:49 [Birkir]
- present+ Birkir
- 17:16:02 [jamesn]
- jg: would like to take another shot at the example based on the current text
- 17:16:53 [jamesn]
- jg: have some ideas how to organize the example so more useful
- 17:17:02 [jamesn]
- jg: will try to get done by friday
- 17:17:14 [jamesn]
- jn: got rid of tables
- 17:17:37 [jamesn]
- jn: removed the section linking to aria spec and just linked the term
- 17:18:30 [jamesn]
- aa: we called it out specifically before
- 17:19:20 [jamesn]
- jn: editorial decision. Doesn't change the text of the document
- 17:19:29 [jamesn]
- jn: need to have the document to be consistent
- 17:19:54 [jamesn]
- tb: how about an intro section.
- 17:20:15 [jamesn]
- jn: assuming anyone reads it
- 17:22:21 [jamesn]
- tb: we have to assume some level of intelligence
- 17:22:32 [jamesn]
- bg: how about changing to banner role
- 17:23:06 [jamesn]
- jg: more concerned about linking from the spec to the APG
- 17:23:26 [jamesn]
- jn: I don't think we can link from the spec to the APG
- 17:24:19 [jamesn]
- tb: sometimes i find too many words loses the crispness of thinks
- 17:24:25 [jamesn]
- s/thinks/things/
- 17:24:48 [jamesn]
- aa: people who are not savvy to w3c things aren't aware that there is a difference between the APG and the spec
- 17:24:57 [jamesn]
- tb: that is an issue beyond this
- 17:25:11 [jamesn]
- tb: a few lines in this document - how to use this docuemnt
- 17:26:53 [jamesn]
- jn: i was wrong about not being able to link to the APG from the spec
- 17:28:23 [jamesn]
- JN: my opinion is that making links to the spec called-out explicitly just makes the document longer and not more clear.
- 17:28:41 [jamesn]
- JG: something like really good examples will get linked to
- 17:28:51 [jamesn]
- JG: most people will come through the examples
- 17:29:11 [jamesn]
- JG: the oaa website can just fwd people to the w3c examples
- 17:30:57 [jamesn]
- JN: removed patterns row heading and moved into prose in the top.
- 17:31:26 [jamesn]
- JN: then added HTML5 techniques and ARIA techniques sub heading
- 17:33:07 [jamesn]
- JN: <making changes live>
- 17:33:25 [jamesn]
- JG: first bullet - Break the page into perceivable areas of content.
- 17:33:52 [jamesn]
- JN: good with that
- 17:35:55 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:37:11 [jamesn]
- TB: what is the value of 2nd bullet
- 17:37:22 [jamesn]
- AA: could help define landmarks?
- 17:37:29 [jamesn]
- TB: I don't know what it means
- 17:38:33 [Birkir]
- .. landmarks are a way to create same division of content programmatically, e.g. for those who are unable to see the visual distinction.
- 17:38:55 [jamesn]
- JG: to me this brings in designers
- 17:39:16 [jamesn]
- JG: we want to not just talk to developers but also designers
- 17:41:28 [jamesn]
- TB: <li>Break the page into perceivable areas of content which typically, designers indicate visually using alignment and spacing.</li>
- 17:42:39 [jamesn]
- JN: sold
- 17:43:09 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:43:15 [jamesn]
- zakim, close item 5
- 17:43:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 5, updated Landmarks proposal based on discussions last week. Please review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/JN_Landmarks/practices/aria-practices.html#aria_landmark, closed
- 17:43:18 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:43:18 [Zakim]
- 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
- 17:43:29 [jamesn]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 17:43:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:43:50 [jamesn]
- JN: any updates?
- 17:43:51 [jamesn]
- no
- 17:44:02 [jamesn]
- zakim, close item 3
- 17:44:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Review new examples and update pattern work assignments https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status, closed
- 17:44:04 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:44:04 [Zakim]
- 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
- 17:44:07 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:45:00 [jamesn]
- zakim, take up item 4
- 17:45:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "MathML issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290" taken up [from jamesn]
- 17:45:16 [jamesn]
- jn: does anyone know anything about mathml?
- 17:45:34 [jamesn]
- aa: i know nothing about mathml
- 17:46:14 [jamesn]
- BG: MSFT said they will not support it. The Moz implementation has >130 issues logged against it which makes it unuseable
- 17:46:22 [jamesn]
- BG: most use mathjax
- 17:46:44 [jamesn]
- JG: LaTEX and MathML are the 2 used
- 17:47:00 [jamesn]
- JN: Q is what does role=math mean
- 17:47:34 [jamesn]
- JN: I don't think we have expertise in Math
- 17:47:59 [jamesn]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/290
- 17:49:21 [jamesn]
- JN: need to either fix the example or remove it. Need a good math example for role=math (if one exists).
- 17:49:32 [jamesn]
- JG: need to find out if it helps anyone or not
- 17:49:41 [jamesn]
- JG: being in higher ed math is a big deal
- 17:49:58 [jamesn]
- JG: have people doing things with accessible math
- 17:50:09 [jamesn]
- JG: have some specialists in this
- 17:50:37 [jamesn]
- BG: I worked in accessible math for a while
- 17:50:52 [jamesn]
- BG: so i can do some of that
- 17:52:02 [jamesn]
- JN: editors are looking for recommendations as to how to resolve this
- 17:52:34 [jamesn]
- JN: please make updates in issue 290
- 17:52:53 [jamesn]
- JG: everyone says you need to use mathjax for math on the web
- 17:53:54 [jamesn]
- JN: need to ensure that we don't over-complicate things
- 17:54:46 [jamesn]
- JN: thanks Jon and Birhkir
- 17:54:59 [jamesn]
- s/Birhkir/Birkir/
- 17:56:12 [jamesn]
- zakim, close this item
- 17:56:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 closed
- 17:56:13 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:56:13 [Zakim]
- 1. Review section 2.13 Grid (Simple Data Tables) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#grid [from jamesn]
- 17:56:16 [jamesn]
- agenda?
- 17:57:48 [jongund]
- I need to go today
- 18:02:02 [jamesn]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/323
- 18:02:05 [MichielBijl]
- @annabbott, if you go to https://github.com/; there is a form on the frontpage
- 18:03:46 [jamesn]
- zakim, please part
- 18:03:46 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, Teresa, JonGunderson, IanPouncey, Birkir
- 18:03:46 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg
- 18:03:51 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:03:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
- 18:04:00 [jamesn]
- Meeting: ARIA APG TF
- 18:04:07 [jamesn]
- chair: JamesNurthen
- 18:04:09 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:04:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/11-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn