See also: IRC log
<scribe> ScribeNick: ShaneM
janina: moved the agenda around a little.
Cyns: At CSun Cynthia and some
others will be doing a panel talk about Edge. 1 pm on
Wednesday.
... Should have a bunch of changes to accname coming in as a PR
soon.
<Rich> prest+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
LJWatson: bug triage meeting for
a11y stuff in web platform thursday at 15:00 UTC
... migrating issues from bugzilla into github
janina: only 3 responses of who will participate. Janina, Katie, and Shane
<michael looks at poll>
Monday at 1 pm is the best
Starting 4 April meet at 1 pm mondays to work on PAUR
Michael to set up webex
If there are people at CSun who can assist in working with CSS we should recruit them.
Beyond that, are there any thoughts on how we should move forward?
<crickets>
<cyns> Will continue to work internally with Rossen, who is on the same team as me
ShaneM: asked about outstanding issues
<cyns> oh and my CSUN talk is at 11:00 not 1pm!
Janina: Matt King asked that we nail it down.
Maybe we should get involved in a mappings guide for the key aspects of CSS that apply to reading order.
scribe: and possibly something about keyboard mappings.
If there was something we could do about best practices to help ATs work well with CSS features, that might be useful too.
fesch: They really need to fill the hole between their new features and the mappings.
janina: they may not know enough
about how to do that. We would need to help with it.
... and we are already overburdened with all of the AAMs
already.
fesch: Might get ARIA to do that work.
janina: Yes - Rich thought so as well but wasn't very excited about it.
fesch: Not to do the work; just help CSS understand what they need to do.
Rich: Yes, the group is buried. There are 5 mapping specs. The ARIA spec, DPub, Graphics.
janina: and also Personalization...
Rich: it is somewhat difficult to work with the different mindset. There may not be energy to do that.
janina: the best way to help with mindset changes is dialog. If we need more energy we need more people!
Rich: there's a lot of additional
data coming down the pipe. Personalization, web components, the
indie ui pieces...
... There was an assumption that CSS wanted media queries. In
the last meeting it seems that is no longer the case.
... maybe the thing to do is coordinate with the TAG a way to
have some sort of announcement and selection mechanism.
All sorts of styling issues with the new w3c house styles
Surprised by about the ToC on the left.
ShaneM: JF you reviewed the A11Y of new w3c house styles. opinions?
Floating ToC has its utility.
cyns: I like the new ToC.
JF: I had some concerns about colors. Color contrast requirements. That was the feedback I provided.
MichaelC: did we have the opportunity to review?
JF: we had it. Did we do it? Formally? I don't know.
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to talk about the a11y of layout
MichaelC: visual presentation
a11y is something we care about too.
... concerned about keyboard a11y of the Toc and its
widgets
cyns: Having the ToC there all the time is a major win for reading disabilities.
ShaneM: ToC widgets are at the
top of the DOM
... so keyboard navigation is something that may not be super
intuitive.
Rich: the registered trademark is not legible in the logo
JF: images are exempt from color contrast
janina: we should identify and
report bugs and things that are problematic.
... next time I will chase more groups about review
ShaneM: how can we produce accessible diagrams using SVG today?
fesch: we are looking at this in
the task force. Some of them are very very hard to do anything
good.
... but if there is one you can assign a task to someone in the
task force to assist with making it accessible.
... some are relatively easy. Some are so difficult it causes
redoing the whole graphic.
... we are looking at producing an authoring document to assist
people.
cyns: are there WCAG techniques for SVG?
MichaelC: no.
fesch: I forgot to do that. I am
supposed to start a new one and people are going to start
populating it. But it will not be useful until ARIA 1.1 is
released.
... anytime we see one throw it over the fence and someone will
eventually get to it.
JF: this problem is not exclusive
to SVG.
... we steer people to using SVG, but PNG and other formats are
being embedded and those are not accessible either.
... there is a heavy usage of imagery now. And those might not
even have alt text or longer descriptions.
janina: we should put our foot down. The documents must be accessible. Everything should have alt at the very least. We should be encouraging people to drop PNG and JPEG in favor of SVG.
JF: do we have a resource that we
can point people to
... sometimes we talk about guidance to working groups. THis is
the sort of thing that we should be providing guidance
on.
... is there a technical resource so we can "teach them to
fish"?
cyns: There's two things. 1) it is just a web page and they should be using WCAG and there should be techniques.
Rich: implementation of SVG
across browsers was inconsistent and incomplete
... so that needs to get sorted first before we can start
recommending good techniques.
... walk before we can run. We don't have all the tools today
to make the drawing accessible. And if we did, on some browsers
it doesn't even get exposed.
... one thing we could potentially do is provide alternative
text to drawings in the short term.
fesch: at one point I proposed figures and figcaptions in the short term. Some people on the task force dont like that
cyns: you don't need to have only one technique. fig/figcaption is fine. describedby is also fine. More sophisticated things might be fine.
Rich: There are holes in the SVG spec where it is not accurately specified what is supposed to be done (e.g., titles in multiple languages). We are having to fix some of that too.
LJWatson: I have some guidance I wrote a couple of years ago on this. Wouldn't be hard to contribute that to W3C.
janina: There is a page in WAI that could be a place for that document.
Rich: note there is no longdesc in SVG.
LJWatson: yes - that's why I said longer description.
cyns: WCAG techniques is the right place for this.
LJWatson: I started writing some but have not contributed them yet.
janina: I am trying to find the WAI resource so I can put it in the minutes.
MichaelC: is it a wiki page?
janina: Yes.
MichaelC: WAI tutorials...
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/
cyns: Is the stuff rich is producing actually what people making diagrams need?
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: ShaneM Inferring Scribes: ShaneM Present: Janina fesch LJWatson MichaelC Rich_Schwerdtfeger JF Regrets: Michiel Mary_Jo Gottfried Found Date: 16 Mar 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/16-apa-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]