IRC log of audio on 2016-03-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:01:28 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #audio
- 17:01:29 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-audio-irc
- 17:01:30 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 17:01:32 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 28346
- 17:01:32 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 17:01:33 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
- 17:01:33 [trackbot]
- Date: 10 March 2016
- 17:01:37 [mdjp]
- agenda?
- 17:01:48 [mdjp]
- zakim, bye
- 17:01:48 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been padenot, ChrisL, joe, hongchan, rtoyg_m, jdsmith, cwilso, mdjp
- 17:01:49 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #audio
- 17:01:54 [mdjp]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 17:01:56 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 17:01:56 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #audio
- 17:01:58 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 28346
- 17:01:58 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 17:01:59 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
- 17:01:59 [trackbot]
- Date: 10 March 2016
- 17:02:02 [mdjp]
- agenda?
- 17:02:18 [mdjp]
- Agenda+ Audioworker update
- 17:02:28 [mdjp]
- Agenda+ New and Uncommitted issues https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+no%3Amilestone
- 17:02:32 [rtoyg_m]
- present+ rtoyg_m
- 17:02:44 [mdjp]
- Agenda+ F2F
- 17:02:49 [mdjp]
- Agenda+ Next Meeting
- 17:02:56 [mdjp]
- present+ mdjp
- 17:03:42 [mdjp]
- I have some internet issues here, struggling to connect to webex
- 17:04:06 [rtoyg_m]
- Same here. Doesn't seem to accept the meeting code.
- 17:04:18 [BillHofmann]
- BillHofmann has joined #audio
- 17:04:19 [mdjp]
- ah - I'm not even getting that far
- 17:04:55 [ChrisL_]
- ChrisL_ has joined #audio
- 17:04:56 [hongchan]
- hongchan has joined #audio
- 17:04:58 [hongchan]
- hongchan has left #audio
- 17:04:59 [mdjp]
- I'm guessing it still needs the host to join
- 17:05:06 [jdsmith]
- I'm on webex. It shows joe and Matt as well.
- 17:05:08 [hongchan]
- hongchan has joined #audio
- 17:05:18 [jdsmith]
- No audio though.
- 17:05:39 [rtoyg_m]
- Has the meeting code changed? It won't accept it.
- 17:05:41 [hongchan]
- WebEX says 'the meeting can't be found'
- 17:06:20 [jdsmith]
- I just ran this link: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m95d805e15fcae1a4b63eb595f048ec35
- 17:06:30 [mdjp]
- ChrisL_ are you joiing webex?
- 17:06:38 [mdjp]
- I think it will spring into life once he does
- 17:06:41 [rtoyg_m]
- jdsmith: I'm trying that now.
- 17:07:05 [BillHofmann]
- POTS dialin doesn't work because host hasn't joined the meeting.
- 17:07:15 [BillHofmann]
- therefore, no audio.
- 17:07:19 [padenot]
- curious
- 17:07:42 [BillHofmann]
- well, the chairs need to have the host code, that's clear.
- 17:07:42 [jdsmith]
- I see folks talking, but don't hear audio. Is it just me?
- 17:08:16 [joe]
- joe has joined #audio
- 17:08:38 [padenot]
- jdsmith: I can hear some folks here
- 17:08:51 [joe]
- yes, we are live now
- 17:08:58 [padenot]
- I might afk for 5min in 5min
- 17:09:04 [ChrisL_]
- the chairs do have the host code, but it sems they need an MIT kerberos authentication key too
- 17:09:10 [BillHofmann]
- Fabulous.
- 17:09:18 [mdjp]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 17:09:19 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Audioworker update" taken up [from mdjp]
- 17:09:36 [BillHofmann]
- who is scribing?
- 17:09:43 [jdsmith]
- Looks like my local audio is broken. I'll leave and rejoin shortly.
- 17:10:10 [rtoyg_m]
- We're in!
- 17:10:19 [BillHofmann]
- present+ BillHofmann
- 17:10:36 [hongchan]
- present+ hongchan
- 17:10:36 [ChrisL_]
- present+ ChrisL_
- 17:10:38 [joe]
- scribenick: joe
- 17:11:09 [joe]
- padenot: we've made progress on proxy model. lots of comments, thanks everyone. All comments have been addressed.
- 17:11:40 [joe]
- padenot: we're almost there. 10 patches on worklets text since last looked at it. ready to start on audioworker.
- 17:11:55 [joe]
- padenot: will be working in the alps on audioworker next week w/ no distractions.
- 17:12:06 [joe]
- mdjp: we've moved a long way in the last couple of weeks
- 17:12:20 [joe]
- mdjp: anthing blocking this?
- 17:12:29 [joe]
- padenot: it's all clear now. we just need to do the work
- 17:12:46 [joe]
- mdjp: we'll keep this at top of the agenda for the next few meetings. any other comments?
- 17:12:47 [mdjp]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 17:12:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "New and Uncommitted issues https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+no%3Amilestone" taken up [from mdjp]
- 17:13:05 [joe]
- mdjp: we have the usual bunch of issues to go through.
- 17:13:50 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/756
- 17:14:22 [joe]
- rtoy: this is a broad editorial thing.
- 17:14:28 [joe]
- mdjp: let's drop this right into v1
- 17:14:36 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/749
- 17:15:08 [jdsmith]
- jdsmith has joined #audio
- 17:15:18 [joe]
- rtoy: this is a comment from Philip re SpatialPannerNode. Could we just merge the new spatial features into the existing PannerNode?
- 17:15:52 [joe]
- mdjp: so we'd no longer have SpatialPannerNode
- 17:16:07 [joe]
- clilley: I thought we wanted to separate out the "normal" L/R panning from other features
- 17:16:31 [joe]
- rtoy: That's the StereoPannerNode. This is about SpatialPannerNode.
- 17:16:43 [padenot]
- I'm back
- 17:17:11 [joe]
- BillHofmann: the defaults were wrong and confusing in the old PannerNode
- 17:17:22 [jdsmith]
- present+ jdsmith
- 17:17:33 [joe]
- rtoy: the fact that the X/Y/Z coords of everything are now AudioParams in the new node are significant
- 17:18:01 [joe]
- BillHofmann: maybe this is archaeology but if we thought that the PannerNode was hard to use, did we also make a mistake in SpatialPannerNode?
- 17:18:19 [joe]
- rtoy: I don't remember why we broke SpatialPannerNode out. But there were no AudioParams in PannerNode
- 17:18:35 [joe]
- rtoy: I don't remember why we made this change except that automation is now possible.
- 17:19:05 [joe]
- rtoy: we changed the deafult to eq power a long time ago
- 17:19:25 [joe]
- BillHofmann: so does PN still have the nonautomatable parameters?
- 17:19:45 [joe]
- rtoy: I think for backwards compatibility we would need to keep the old position setting methods
- 17:20:03 [joe]
- BillHofmann: it seems like we decided to deprecate PN, now are we asking whether to un-deprecate?
- 17:20:05 [joe]
- rtoy: yes
- 17:20:21 [joe]
- BillHofmann: we're not required to keep compatibiliy right now. Do we think this is a major impact?
- 17:20:25 [joe]
- rtoy: to do what?
- 17:20:37 [joe]
- BillHofmann: to deprecate PN. It's not marked as deprecated yet
- 17:21:58 [joe]
- rtoy: we could do that but because they're so similar, do we really have to break compatibility?
- 17:23:06 [joe]
- BillHofmann: if we meant to deprecate and didn't that sounds like a mistake. Did we strongly feel we should do that?
- 17:23:37 [joe]
- rtoy: yes we did want to deprecate. but we forgot to mark PN as deprecated. Now that we look at SpatialPN though it's really just become an "enhanced" PN
- 17:24:28 [joe]
- joe: if we didn't realize taht SpatialPN was an enhancement of PN, why not reverse a bad decision
- 17:24:54 [joe]
- mdjp: this buys us some compatiblity by not deprecating something
- 17:25:07 [joe]
- mdjp: I don't see an issue with this and I think I'm in favor
- 17:25:29 [joe]
- BillHofmann: what happens if people use old-school setPosition() in conjunctoin with AudioParams
- 17:26:07 [joe]
- padenot: we could define setPosition() in terms of actions on AudioParams to unify the definitions
- 17:26:25 [joe]
- BillHofmann: yes, that does seem a bit clunky
- 17:26:47 [rtoyg_m_]
- rtoyg_m_ has joined #audio
- 17:27:01 [joe]
- rtoy: we could add a deprecation msg to the console
- 17:29:19 [joe]
- rtoy: how about everyone post their comments to the bug
- 17:29:46 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/748
- 17:30:52 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/741
- 17:31:39 [joe]
- rtoy: because we're automating SpatialPN now, you would need to break up automation into X/Y/Z changes to do something like spin around
- 17:31:58 [joe]
- rtoy: so using spherical coordinates makes this much easier
- 17:32:48 [joe]
- BillHofmann: at Dolby we think about this in terms of whether you're doing user-based changes or environment-centric
- 17:33:12 [joe]
- BillHofmann: so there's no single way to do this that makes "the most sense"
- 17:33:36 [joe]
- rtoy: I'm fine with closing this as just an idea. One can make things reasonably smooth by piecewise automation of Cartesian coords
- 17:33:53 [joe]
- mdjp: how does this work in other common libraries? do they mostly use Cartesian?
- 17:34:03 [joe]
- rtoy: yes they do
- 17:34:17 [joe]
- rtoy: we can close this w/ no action
- 17:34:25 [joe]
- mdjp: that would be my feeling
- 17:34:26 [joe]
- _1
- 17:34:27 [joe]
- +1
- 17:34:46 [BillHofmann]
- ChrisL - I can never remember it :)
- 17:34:53 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/740
- 17:35:19 [joe]
- mdjp: makes sense to do this simple ed. change
- 17:35:31 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/739
- 17:36:22 [joe]
- rtoy: not sure what to do here. ChrisW was concerned that on mobile in particular the delay in loading HRTF database was pretty noticeable an dbad
- 17:36:32 [joe]
- BillHofmann: I love the idea of being able to load one's own
- 17:36:48 [joe]
- mdjp: there were a few requests on this. some came from my team a long time ago.
- 17:37:00 [joe]
- mdjp: we need to do a bit of digging to see if there's a ticket anywhere
- 17:37:21 [joe]
- mdjp: what I would suggest for this is bring it up again with Chris and I'll look and see if I can find any reference to our agreeing to do this
- 17:38:08 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/737
- 17:38:29 [joe]
- rtoy: this basic term isn't defined anywhere
- 17:38:53 [joe]
- joe: isn't "block size" actually defined?
- 17:39:20 [joe]
- padenot: we can link to some text I added in the Processing Model
- 17:39:33 [joe]
- rtoy: I'll wait for the Proc Model to land and we can take it from there
- 17:40:02 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/730
- 17:40:55 [joe]
- ok this sounds like something that just needs to be done. what are the compatibiliy issues here?
- 17:41:10 [joe]
- padenot: it's got a patch, I'll have a look in gecko
- 17:41:20 [joe]
- mdjp: shall I just assign this to you Paul?
- 17:41:28 [joe]
- padenot: yes thanks
- 17:41:42 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/729
- 17:42:37 [joe]
- padenot: this is not like a state that is stable.
- 17:42:53 [joe]
- padenot: if you are in the same ... wait I think I got confused ...
- 17:43:00 [joe]
- padenot: I'll follow up on this
- 17:44:20 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/713
- 17:45:06 [joe]
- rtoy: this is about scheduling param automation events in the past
- 17:45:16 [joe]
- mdjp: didn't we discuss this last call?
- 17:45:20 [joe]
- rtoy: I don't remember that
- 17:45:50 [joe]
- joe: I dno't remember discussing this
- 17:46:19 [joe]
- joe: for congruence w/ rest of API, clamping to currentTime feels like the right thing to do
- 17:46:29 [joe]
- rtoy: yeah, we could do that
- 17:48:21 [joe]
- mdjp: that just leaves the many "property bag" issues
- 17:49:37 [joe]
- joe: I've held off on my ctor PR because of all of these dangling questions about ctor signatures and property bags
- 17:49:52 [joe]
- mdjp: I think that's it for item 2
- 17:50:22 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/673
- 17:51:23 [joe]
- rtoy: we need to look at nominal ranges for all the AudioParams to expose the min/max r/o attributes
- 17:51:33 [mdjp]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/667
- 17:52:31 [joe]
- rtoy: one other item from last week was the playback latency category-or-number issue
- 17:53:29 [rtoyg_m]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/348
- 17:54:46 [joe]
- mdjp: question still seems to be about numbers vs categories
- 17:55:02 [joe]
- rtoy: original proposal used categories, some wanted more fine grained control
- 17:55:32 [joe]
- joe: is there a precedent in Web APIs for signatures that allow String or numbers?
- 17:56:24 [joe]
- rtoy: I don't know but WebIDL does let you allow this sort of thing
- 17:56:36 [rtoyg_m]
- https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/348#issuecomment-190341633
- 17:57:17 [joe]
- joe: nice to be able to specify both but need to be able to introspect what the UA actually gave you
- 17:57:49 [joe]
- padenot: don't we have this on the dest node
- 17:57:59 [joe]
- joe: that is proposed to be latency in ms not the batch size
- 17:58:22 [joe]
- mdjp: we need to come back to this
- 17:58:31 [joe]
- rtoy: I'll propose something on the bug and folks can comment
- 17:58:40 [joe]
- mdjp: we're out of time. one more meeting before F2F
- 17:58:56 [mdjp]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 17:58:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Next Meeting" taken up [from mdjp]
- 17:59:18 [joe]
- mdjp: next call is 24 March
- 17:59:42 [joe]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:59:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-audio-minutes.html joe
- 18:44:35 [rtoyg_m]
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- 19:42:40 [ChrisL]
- ChrisL has joined #audio
- 21:04:26 [hongchan]
- hongchan has joined #audio
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