Web Payments IG Telcon
07 Mar 2016

<dezell> chair: dezell, erik

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Payments Interest Group Teleconference

<scribe> scribe: Ian

<scribe> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2016Mar/0002.html

Intro Peter Hofmann

Peter: Working with Joerg at Deutsche Telekom

Post FTF follow-up

David: I think the FTF meeting was productive.

-> https://www.w3.org/2016/02/22-wpay-minutes Minutes

scribe: we did not discuss follow-up at the meeting (ran out of time)
... two topics are ongoing:

* Verifiable claims is working on a charter for review by the IG

* ISO20022 task force is working within the WPWG

scribe: working on alignment with repository and terminology alignment

<jheuer> * jheuer is finally in WebEx and phone call

List of Topics in addition to consider pursuing:

- Impact of two topics on Web stack:

* Fed effectiveness criteria

* PSD2

<Erik> Feds also covers Identity.

scribe: relation to capabilities document (currently not advancing)

IJ: Capabilities is stalled. It's a tool to take a source of information (e.g., use cases, psd2, fed) and turn into high-level requirements

Padler: I think there will be additional help from the Fed, and that could help unstick the capabilities work
... let's take that offline

David: Other topics:

* Use cases update

* Blockchain

* Monitor web authentication and possibly propose requirements

David: What we need is someone to take leadership on these topics, and come up with a plan (including suggested deliverables, a timeline)
... Any feedback from the FTF meeting?

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to supply feedback

ShaneM: I found the meeting valuable. Agenda too tight
... discussion felt rushed.
... I think we had more than 1 day of material (even if not 2 days)

dezell: I heard others express similarly

<Zakim> padler, you wanted to mention un-planned time...

padler: I also heard people suggest we have more "unplanned time"
... e.g., we could do breakout sessions
... next time we might do something like presentations in the morning and group work in the afternoon
... related question - next FTF meeting (prior to TPAC)?
... also we can take these suggestions into account during TPAC

kris: Regarding the agenda

<ShaneM> there were times wednesday at TPAC to have hour long breakouts...

kris: I don't know if this group is aware of a paper from the EU on retail financial services
... I will alert the group via email
... I think it's in the heart of what's going on in the WG...it's a follow-up on PSD2, focused on retail financial services
... harmonizing retail services...impediments to users changing retailers efficiently
... the paper asks for ideas.

[IJ: Thanks Kris!!]

dezell: I listed PSD2 as a topic, perhaps we need to rename that if more general.

[IJ thinks we should focus on PSD2]

Kris: Green paper should just be part of the "group working on PSD2"

<padler> Are there tentative dates?

<scribe> ACTION: DavidE to look into possibilities for Q2 FTF meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-wpay-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'DavidE'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/track/users>.

IJ: Work will (only) get done if people take ownership of topics

Erik: I will be working with Doug Schepers on blockchain
... looking into "member services"

dezell: I want to second what Ian was saying about the need for leadership on each topic

Coupons

dezell: Important to merchants

https://www.w3.org/2016/Talks/ij_coupons/

<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about GSMA, GS1, and "is a coupon a payment"?

<Erik> Focus of merchants is toward Member Services. There are several catagories of coupons. Loyalty Card Coupons, Store Coupons, Online Coupons

dezell: Just coupons or coupons and loyalty more broadly?
... Interest in using regular rails that are used for automated clearing house to do low-risk kind of payment

IJ: what are the business needs? What would drive the shape of a workshop?

dezell: Connexxus has some related work

<Zakim> jheuer, you wanted to say that coupons follow along the same path as credentials do

IJ: I want to emphasize desire to build on momentum of improving experience of redeeming coupons

jheuer: I want us to use credential terminology here. (Peter here was involved in GSMA work). At moment that coupons are redeemed, they fall into the same category as credentials.
... I see this as a continuum.
... I hope that w3c will sooner or later take that on.

IJ: Hear you saying that the credentials part is interesting to you.

jheuer: Yes

<ShaneM> +1 on thinking that credentials / verifiable claims structure could help with coupons

Erik: Member focus is shifting to loyalty
... I don't think you can tackle coupons without loyalty cards

<jheuer> +1 to Shane's phrasing of the relationship between coupons and cred's

<dezell> Conexxus preso: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2016Mar/att-0004/DigitalOfferSuccess-CStoreEnvironment.pdf

ltoth: Regarding that slide
... just background - Conexxus is the tech arm of NACS
... we have sales of almost $700B annually
... people are interested in coupons for about 70% of the items sold in the convenience stores

<Erik> +1 Linda. "Bearer of Coupon/Offer is rightful owner". It all goes back to Identity

ltoth: paper based coupons are not well-accepted in convenience stores
... paper coupons are typically more for "planned events", such as conscious shopping in a grocery store
... we are highly interested in digital offers
... we have used the word "offer" instead of "coupons" since offer is more than representation of a coupon in digital format.
... convenience stores do loyalty well and local discounts (e.g., buy 2 items get a third)
... or discounts for groups of people (e.g., seniors, firefighters)
... we see digital offers as where we want to go in the future
... what would successful digital offers look like?

* Easy acceptance without premeditated actions

scribe: we want it to be VERY easy to accept coupons

(IJ: That's why we need technology interop!)

scribe: we need system to work in native apps and in the browser
... the user does not want to install an app to get $.25 off a package of chips
... so in-browser is important
... we need life cycle management of offers....through settlement
... we see settlement as low-risk payments
... critical to success it reduced handling fee
... we also need to limit fraud, especially around age-restricted items
... so need to verify digital offers...ensure that the person who receives the offer is qualified
... ensure that the bearer of the offer is the rightful owner

(e.g., limited use....people do photocopy paper coupons)

scribe: the slide is thus a summary of success criteria
... we are working with JICC next week in Alexandria as part of a conference
... they are working on updating their digital specs but are very paper-based

http://www.reddognetworks.com/assets/joint_industry_coupon_committee_voluntary_guidelines_for_digital_coupons_2012.pdf

IJ: They are planning to update those guidleines?

ltoth: next week will discuss time frame for updates

<Zakim> dlongley, you wanted to say that there may be some overlap w/the user experience of using coupons and a future browser-based API for exchanging verifiable claims/credentials

dlongley: There might be overlap in use of coupons with future API for exchanging credentials.
... the web payments CG has looked at digital offers (signing offers) to be discoverable via search engines, and consumed in a browser
... and there could be ways to limit who can redeem (e.g., through authentication)

<Zakim> phofmanntsy, you wanted to comment on the relationship of loyalty and coupons

<Erik> A lot of Linda has stated is about "trust machine", coupon as a digital form of cash.

Peter: it's important to look at loyalty (beyond coupons)...PayBack in Germany...they have coupons tied to loyalty points
... e.g., 5x points if I use a coupon
... don't look at coupons in isolation

<Erik> +1 coupons shouldnt be looked at in isolation.

Peter: I have been working with GSMA on a protocol via NFC
... sometimes consumers don't want to install an app to apply coupon
... there should be alignment with previous GSMA work

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to note that many of these use cases dovetail with the basic work that the VCTF has been doing for its initial activities

ShaneM: Verifiable claims task force has been looking at use cases in this space. I think there is substantial overlap. Verifiable claims work should not preclude the use cases that dovetail with ecommerce and digital coupons

<Zakim> Ian, you wanted to ask about JICC

IJ: Who is going to JICC meeting?

ltoth: I am hosting it!

<dezell> Ian: glad Linda is going to the meeting. Wondering if Linda could soft-sound people about garnering interest in the topic.

<dezell> Ian: there hasn't been a lot of follow up yet from Digital Marketing last year, but a finer focus might be helpful.

IJ: Want to ask around to see if there would be interest?

ltoth: Yes, that would be fine. Let's sync up offline

<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to mention relationship to payments

dezell: Very interested in this work.

<dlongley> +1 to David, more to payments than just "payments"

dezell: also Nielsen could be interested

Next steps:

* Linda and Ian will chat about JICC collaboration

<dezell> +1

IJ: Who would like to be actively involved in this?

<ltoth> +1

<ShaneM> +1 to be actively more involved

<Erik> +1

<phofmanntsy> +1

<jheuer> +1 for DT

<scribe> ACTION: Ian to draft a plan around digital coupons work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-wpay-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-180 - Draft a plan around digital coupons work [on Ian Jacobs - due 2016-03-14].

IJ: Note - we will have AC meeting on 21 March

Next meeting

14 march

(And likely no meeting on 21 March)