IRC log of xquery on 2016-02-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:09:17 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #xquery
16:09:17 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/02-xquery-irc
16:11:07 [Abel]: Saying something on the record?
16:11:09 [cmsmcq_]: [testing the log]
16:12:28 [Abel]: Indeed, I do see them online
16:12:40 [mdyck]: J1.5 Review of action items
16:13:52 [mdyck]: (Who is "Call-in User_3" in webex?)
16:14:04 [Abel]: Josh, I believe
16:14:18 [liam]: [ if anyone has specific people in mind to talk to let me know! re. xquery update at prague ]
16:17:05 [mdyck]: J1.6.1 Update on XSLT WG activities (Sharon, MikeK)
16:18:50 [mdyck]: J1.6.2 Update on EXPath/EXQuery CG activities (Mike)
16:19:08 [mdyck]: J1.7 Future Meetings
16:20:01 [mdyck]: J4.2.1 Bug 29373 - Missing error code when fn:serialize receives a QName method in no namespace https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29373
16:20:41 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29403
16:22:29 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29406
16:25:04 [cmsmcq_]: w.r.t. “It should be a URI but you don’t have to reject invalid URIs”, it may also be noted that many systems have no real idea what counts as a valid and what as an invalid URI
16:30:45 [Abel]: http:\\test
16:30:58 [liam]: [ a LEIRI should probably also be accepted by most actual implementations ]
16:30:59 [liam]: yes
16:31:00 [Abel]: is not a valid uri, and cannot be determined whether it is a base uri or not
16:31:08 [liam]: http:
16:31:10 [liam]: er
16:31:23 [Abel]: http: (without anything) is legal in the RFC
16:31:34 [liam]: yes, I didn't mean to type that, sorry
16:32:03 [Abel]: http%gg
16:35:29 [cmsmcq_]: you could perhaps use @xml:base to reset the base to the Unicode base URI just for that one element. But that’s not particularly easier than just using the absolute URI in the first place
16:36:25 [ONeil]: what section?
16:37:08 [ONeil]: 5.3.5?
16:37:25 [ONeil]: ok
16:37:53 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29409
16:39:20 [Abel]: here: https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/#formatting-the-number
16:40:39 [cmsmcq_]: The bug says “I fail to see how 100000000 is preferred over 100000001”
16:40:49 [cmsmcq_]: the first has one digit, not counting trailing zeros
16:41:05 [cmsmcq_]: the second has ten (or however many)
16:45:24 [cmsmcq_]: Q (side point): is it true that sometimes there is more than one number with the least number of digits? E.g. 1.23456789012345 and 1.23456789012347 and …6 as well?
16:45:37 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29415
16:45:47 [ONeil]: J4.2.5
16:48:14 [liam]: $ echo abcd | perl -p -e 's/a(?:b(c))/$1/'
16:48:14 [liam]: cd
16:49:17 [liam]: non-capturing *only* means that the ( isn't numbered, does not mean "discard contents"
16:50:37 [liam]: [(] indeed also doesn't count and neither does \(
16:51:21 [liam]: s/top-level/entire/
16:55:41 [cmsmcq_]: Would an example help?
16:55:52 [cmsmcq_]: a(?:b(c))
16:56:04 [cmsmcq_]: ___1___
16:56:58 [liam]: similarly replace("abcde", "(ab(?:.)de)", "$1") => "abcde"
16:57:40 [ONeil]: action item created
16:58:01 [cmsmcq_]: I think the solution here is not formality but one or two examples showing the numbering of parenthesis pairs and the text matched
17:00:09 [cmsmcq_]: perhaps s/the position of the opening parenthesis/the position of the opening non-capturing parenthesis/ ?
17:00:18 [mdyck]: J4.4.1 Bug 29277 - [XP31] Evaluating function calls does not mention evaluation of dynamic or static function calls that have no FunctionBody https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29277
17:00:35 [jrobie]: xquery-31.html#id-eval-function-call
17:00:48 [ONeil]: Is it worth going over the action items?
17:00:55 [Abel]: do you have a full link?
17:01:13 [jrobie]: https://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31.html#id-eval-function-call
17:04:50 [mdyck]: is there a version with change-highlighting?
17:05:42 [jrobie]: This document is also available in these non-normative formats: XML and Change markings relative to previous edition.
17:05:51 [jrobie]: https://www.w3.org/TR/2015/CR-xquery-31-20151217/xquery-31-diff.html
17:06:04 [jrobie]: https://www.w3.org/TR/2015/CR-xquery-31-20151217/xquery-31-diff.html#id-eval-function-call
17:06:13 [Abel]: I have this, works: https://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31-diff.html#id-eval-function-call
17:06:51 [Abel]: Note that the highlighting still shows the changes from the last CR to CR changes.
17:09:41 [cmsmcq_]: [JR noted that ‘implementation-defined function’ needs to be defined; perhaps 2.2 Static Context is the right place to add it? In the bullet item for statically known function signatures
17:10:22 [jrobie]: https://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31-diff.html#id-eval-function-call
17:11:45 [jrobie]: cmsmcq, we need to define each of these kinds of functions. I'd like to do that in one place. Currently, the section called Functions gives the properties of a function item, I'm not sure if there is a better place.
17:12:05 [Abel]: [Definition: External functions are functions that are implemented outside the query environment.] For example, an XQuery implementation might provide a set of external functions in addition to the core function library described in [XQuery and XPath Functions and Operators 3.1]. External functions are identified by the keyword external. The purpose of a function declaration for an external
17:12:05 [Abel]: function is to declare the datatypes of the function parameters and result, for use in type checking of the query that contains or imports the function declaration.
17:14:05 [jrobie]: 1. provide formal definitions for "host language function", "implementation-defined function", link to "external function"
17:14:11 [cmsmcq_]: jrobie, you may be right; I’m agnostic. 2.2 could hold definitions of other kinds of functions. but 4.18 in XQuery would probably also work
17:15:13 [jrobie]: 2. make sure that inline functions and declared functions are well defined as "functions that have bodies"
17:20:50 [jrobie]: b. iv.
17:22:22 [jrobie]: iv.
17:27:57 [Abel]: Suggestion: If F has an implementation of a built-in function and its name and signature match that function
17:28:25 [jrobie]: The function to be called or partially applied (call it F) is obtained as follows:
17:28:33 [jrobie]: name: Absent.
17:28:33 [jrobie]: parameter names: The parameter names of F, removing the parameter names at the fixed positions. (So the function's arity is the arity of F minus the number of fixed positions.)
17:28:33 [jrobie]: signature: The signature of F, removing the parameter type at each of the fixed positions.
17:28:33 [jrobie]: implementation: The implementation of F, associated with the same contexts as in F. If these contexts are absent in F, it is associated with SC and DC.
17:28:34 [jrobie]: nonlocal variable bindings: The nonlocal variable bindings of F, plus, for each fixed position, a binding of the converted argument value to the corresponding parameter name.
17:29:15 [jrobie]: If F's implementation is a built-in function,
17:30:09 [Abel]: A house has a door. We have three houses. If a door is one of these houses... then
17:30:09 [jrobie]: f.implementation
17:30:22 [Abel]: That is confusing properties with objects.
17:30:46 [mdyck]: paf.implementation = F.implementation
17:31:34 [jrobie]: conflating: f is a function, F.implementation is a function
17:32:10 [Abel]: I don't agree with that conflation...
17:32:38 [Abel]: we also don't say if f is a function, f.signature is a function, even though we often see a signature as the definition of a function
17:33:22 [jrobie]: F's implementation is invoked with the converted argument values using the contexts it is associated with in F. If these contexts are absent in F, it is associated with SC and DC.
17:33:42 [jrobie]: we invoke functions,not implementations of functions
17:35:06 [jrobie]: the function is invoked using its implementation
17:36:16 [jrobie]: If <var>F</var>'s implementation => If If <var>F</var>
17:37:16 [Abel]: If F's implementation is a FunctionBody:
17:37:22 [ONeil]: decision is?
17:37:32 [mdyck]: they're different numbers in XPath and XQuery
17:39:02 [jrobie]: iv. If F is an partially applied function, the implementation of F is called, supplying a binding of the converted argument value to the corresponding parameter name for each fixed position.
17:39:20 [Abel]: The dynamic context for this evaluation is obtained by taking the dynamic context of the InlineFunctionExpr that contains the FunctionBody, and making the following changes:
17:39:25 [jrobie]: liam: xpath is intended to be embedded in some other language, so what does external mean?
17:40:02 [jrobie]: liam: i think it would have to be external to whatever embeds xpath
17:40:12 [jrobie]: Abels and pears?
17:41:03 [liam]: hmm ok. e.g. php lets you call php functions from xpath, so does perl, maybe python, and some C APIs.
17:41:17 [jrobie]: liam, those are all host language functions
17:41:24 [jrobie]: iv. If F is an partially applied function, the implementation of F is called, supplying a binding of the converted argument value to the corresponding parameter name for each fixed position.
17:42:04 [Andy]: 1. provide formal definitions for "host language function", "implementation-defined function", link to "external function"
17:42:14 [Andy]: 2. make sure that inline functions and declared functions are well defined as "functions that have bodies"
17:42:40 [Andy]: 3. Change ...F's implementation is a... to ..F is a...
17:42:50 [liam]: ah ok, thanks
17:42:53 [Abel]: 3a. typo: s/an/a in "is an partially applied function,"
17:45:59 [jrobie]: If <var>F</var> is an <termref def="dt-partially-applied-function">partially applied function</termref>, the implementation of <var>F</var> is called.
17:48:46 [jrobie]: supplying a binding of the value for each fixed position to the corresponding parameter name.
17:49:26 [jrobie]: supplying a binding of the value for each fixed position to the corresponding parameter.
17:49:53 [Abel]: "from the local variable bindings of F"
17:50:04 [Abel]: (add that, or something like it)
17:50:10 [jrobie]: +1
17:52:22 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29414
17:57:45 [Andy]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29404
18:00:16 [jrobie]: Josh: you are right
18:00:19 [jrobie]: xquery: Bi is [AnnotationsB] function(*) , Ai is a FunctionTest with annotations [AnnotationsA], and subtype-assertions(AnnotationsA, AnnotationsB), where [AnnotationsB] and [AnnotationsA] are optional lists of one or more annotations.
18:00:35 [jrobie]: xpath: Bi is function(*).
18:01:03 [jrobie]: I think the bullet point is there for the purpose of defining how annotations are evaluated, so it does not apply to xpath
18:01:19 [Abel]: so, collection("d:\*.xml") is valid?
18:01:53 [liam]: including with the backslash?
18:02:23 [Abel]: yep
18:03:10 [Abel]: or an UNC path collection("\\servername\path")
18:03:25 [liam]: as a leiri maybe yes
18:03:39 [liam]: as opposed to d|/*.xml
18:04:18 [Abel]: well, according to what CMSMCQ, anything goes nowadays...
18:05:35 [Abel]: @liam, what was that command for RRSAgent to wrap up the draft to that URL?
18:05:44 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/02-xquery-minutes.html liam
18:06:00 [Abel]: ah, that, great!
18:06:10 [liam]: although for my part i prefer to just to paste from my IRC program's backscroll :)
18:06:35 [Abel]: yes, but I don't keep logs, after I close or restart it's gone...
18:08:04 [liam]: i meant when taking minutes, sorry. although yes, my irc program keeps the logs
18:09:47 [MikeK]: MikeK has left #xquery
18:09:55 [Abel]: I'm sure mine can too, just never happened to need it previously ))
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19:52:00 [jrobie]: odd, how did i become the scribe for the RSSAgent minutes?
20:04:47 [ONeil]: ONeil has joined #xquery
20:10:52 [liam]: asked of me in #xml on freenode today... <asarch> Wow! <asarch> Do you know Norman Walsh in person?
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