See also: IRC log
<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C ARIA Working Group
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0146.html
<scribe> scribe: janina
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0146.html
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy
rs: Will be issuing a CfC
... ARIA policy is in sync with APA's
<richardschwerdtfeger> public-aria-test@w3.org
rs: More coordination still
needed but
... Above is a test email list/archive for ARIA
... Will try to keep test meetings at a minimum
... Looking to coordinate with Steve Faulkner and with
SVG
... We will not be applying host language restrictions in our
testing
mk: Is email list also for those writing test cases?
rs: Yes
action-1380?
<trackbot> action-1380 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2016-01-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1380
action-1700?
<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1700 does not exist.
rs: What happens with ARIA-Hidden
vs Role=None or =Presentation
... Webkit handles differently
... Tried adding TAB Index inside an SVG; Didn't work
... For now we will treat as a single graphic
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0136.html
rs: Please consider if OK
jf: Asking about test list -- how to subscribe ...
mc: I will get it documented
<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about subscribing to that new mailing list - details?
<AmeliaBR> Amelia's detailed comments: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0148.html
<MichaelC> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-test/
ab: Wondering whether belongs in
HTML Mapping?
... HTML clear that image is different from object/iframe
... No api for HTML image
... Suggesting adding recommendations for UAs to do smart
things when authors haven't fully marked up
... Would be good to know up front whether an image is
supposedly a11y
rs: That would be an HTML-WG
responsibility
... Perhaps some guidance rs: Is there timeline for next HTML
spec?
lw: no
jn: Noting a language nit on vector graphics -- which could be raster
ab: Treated as object regardless
RESOLUTION: Accept RS' text with some editorial changes so not specific to SVG image
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0136.html
mk: Still looking at the language
-- "refer" seems ambiguous -- Phps ...
... We need Amelia's point to be more clearly made
... e.g. why all child elements of SVG ignored ??
rs: Didn't note no keyboard
because it's an inert object
... We can't get at the children because of how browsers treat
the object
mk: Aren't we saying all children of an object become a static string?
rs: No, because other browsers don't expose -- so you get nothing
mk: Can we say what the effect
is? Seems so complex now.
... Why not simply say "an image is treated as a single object
regardless whether it contains child elements"
rs: That would work
mk: What do we do with the inverse/ When you want children accessible?
rs: Read further into the text ...
mk: Not seeing the text ...
<richardschwerdtfeger> When the <img> is used to refer to either a raster image (e.g. <img src=“foo.jpg”>) or a vector graphics image <img src=“foo.svg”> it is treated as a single entity with all descendant elements being presentational. This is regardless of whether the target graphic has descendant elements that would normally be exposed to assistive technologies, such as with an SVG document. Consequently, using a role=“presentation” or
<richardschwerdtfeger> role=“none” on an <img> element is equivalent to using aria-hidden=“true”. If it is possible to make the descendant elements accessible the author SHOULD embed the document directly within the host document without it being referred to by <img>.
rs: Suggest word smithing on telecon is not best use of our time ...
mk: Can take to list
<AmeliaBR> Two main points to cover: an img is a single entity, regardless of type of image file; if you want an image's contents to be accessible, embed using <object>, <iframe>, or inline SVG code
rs: OK. I'll work this up.
<MichielBijl> +1
rs: Looks like we considered everything EXCEPT ARIA-Busy
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-busy
rs: Here's ARIA-1.0 version ...
<richardschwerdtfeger> ARIA 1.0 version: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-busy
mk: 1.0 didn't make it clear what
Busy was for
... What's the benefit for AT
... Changes intended to remedy that
... i.e. while Busy=true, aT may want to avoid making changes
to the presentation
... Then do a single presentation when Busy clears
... We still need to work on what the good handshakes need to
do
... Also want to make clear that Busy not just for Live
regions
rs: Are changes OK? For 1.1?
RESOLUTION: Group agrees on MK's changes. Action is complete.
action-1736?
<trackbot> action-1736 -- Michiel Bijl to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-12-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1736
rs: Why is not clearing? We agreed to close.
mc: Usually this happens when attached to an Issue that didn't move
jd: Believe it's a tracker bug.
We've seen it before.
... Believe we need to clear, then reintroduce the product
mc: Hmmm, it's refusing to clear
the product!
... I can take this off-line
action-1489?
<trackbot> action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2015-11-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
<clown> pressent+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
mc: Yes, I'll pick up on this ...
<clown> issue-619
<trackbot> issue-619 -- ARIA 1.1 should disallow host languages from declaring @aria-label from being declared in direct semantic conflict with a host language attribute. -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/619
mc: 25 Feb
action-1490?
<trackbot> action-1490 -- Matthew King to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2015-12-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490
<Stefan> +q
action-1490?
<trackbot> action-1490 -- Matthew King to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2015-12-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490
mk: 4 Feb
<richardschwerdtfeger> ack
<Stefan> my mic is broken
<Stefan> regarding the aria.labelledby thing
<Stefan> we doing larger chains of labelling with labelledby
<Stefan> if for is prio this will break?
<Stefan> label for I mean
<Stefan> so this is not valid for aria-labelledby relationships?
<Stefan> okay!
rs: Mine was just an example between ARIA and host ml
item ARIA-1.1 Requirements Draft
mc: It's started, but has a ways
to go
... Exit criteria is further along
... We will need requirements at PR stage
mc 25 Feb
action-1650?
<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1650 does not exist.
<Stefan> still pending .. got me
action-1560?
<trackbot> action-1560 -- Stefan Schnabel to Email list with discussion of on/off value labels (maybe valuetext?) and extending value descriptions to other controls -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1560
<Stefan> I'm guilty
<Stefan> 2 weeks ok
<Stefan> this time for real
<Stefan> ok
action-1567?
<trackbot> action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking and styles for properties -- due 2016-01-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567
jd: Need to check some with Shane
rs: After CSUN?
jd: 30 March
action-1624?
<trackbot> action-1624 -- Michael Cooper to Work with shane to develop publication strategy and solution that would exclude abstract roles for authors -- due 2015-08-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1624
mc: Editorial, but we agreed
...
... It's more Shane than me at this point ...
mk: Do we need this for CR?
rs: People were complaining
mc: Probably before final
CR
... We can't make major changes between final CR and PR
... We need people to be able to say: "This helps me"
mc 17 March
action-1632?
<trackbot> action-1632 -- Michael Cooper to Start documentation on how we do aria spec and modules -- due 2015-05-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1632
rs: Don't we have a process for this? Shouldn't it be closed?
clown: I recall a wiki somewhere ...
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions
RESOLUTION: Close action-1632 as complete
action-1672?
<trackbot> action-1672 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect as deprecated and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-12-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1672
bg: Weren't we going to replace somehow?
rs: Expecting proposal from jd
jd: I don't see my action as written currently. Do we need to update?
mk: Think mc is listed because mc had some specific wording to suggest
<clown> "This property is planned for deprecation, with a replacement, in a future version of WAI-ARIA. "
mk: We want to say "Don't use this anymore, we plan to replace it."
rs: So deprecate -- we plan to replace it
jd: I'll make a proposal
... 4 February
action-1675?
<trackbot> action-1675 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove list as a superclass of menu and listbox -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1675
<clown> https://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html#item02
mk: I believe some of what I've
been doing is behind this
... I also don't recall any substantive objections to doing
this
... Menus are not lists; Though, all collections are "lists" in
a general sense
rs: Related concept seems appropriate
DRAFT RESOLUTION: Menus and listbox will not have list as superclasses, but will refer to list as a related concept
<richardschwerdtfeger> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Menus and listbox will not have list as secondary superclass, but will refer to list as a related concept
RESOLUTION: Menus and listbox will not have list as secondary superclass, but will refer to list as a related concept
action-1676?
<trackbot> action-1676 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove directory as a superclass of tablist -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1676
mk: We should have combined the discussion with above! It's the same
RESOLUTION: Remove directory as a secondary superclass of tablist
action-1677?
<trackbot> action-1677 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove input as a superclass of scrollbar and select -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1677
rs: Don't see an issue as long as
no inheritance issues
... Don't believe "related concept" adds anything
... Does have to subclass widget
mk: Currently subclass of range, which is a subclass of widget
RESOLUTION: Have scrollbar not subclass input as a secondary subclass
rs: Let's see who subclasses
input when we're all done!
... Then we can decide whether we still need input
jd: Checkbox?
rs: We need a role of
"error"
... error messages need to be visible.
... I wanted to put this out for consideration
... Also, we need to finish up on extended destription
... These are discussions from the mapping spec
mk: So error message couldn't reference a hidden element
rs: yes
clown: Not quite ... Relationship doesn't occur until unhidden
rs: We'll need these details for
extended descriptions
... Issue is the name computation
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/be/do/ Succeeded: s/650ml// Succeeded: s/smae/same/ Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, JF, AmeliaBR, LJWatson, jongund, fesch, Bryan_Garaventa, Joanmarie_Diggs Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger JF AmeliaBR LJWatson jongund fesch Bryan_Garaventa Joanmarie_Diggs Found Date: 28 Jan 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/28-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]