18:09:15 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:09:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-irc 18:09:28 rrsagent, make log world 18:10:43 Agenda+ Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group 18:10:43 Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/c 18:10:43 Agenda+ heckbox-3.html Review and update pattern work assignments and 18:10:43 Agenda+ status 18:10:44 Agenda+ https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patter 18:10:44 Agenda+ ns-Status Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) 18:10:45 Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html 18:10:47 Agenda+ #dialog_modal Review APG section 2.11 Dialog (Non-Modal) 18:10:49 Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html 18:10:53 Agenda+ #dialog_nonmodal 18:11:04 zakim, clear the agenda 18:11:04 agenda cleared 18:12:31 Agenda+ Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html 18:12:31 Agenda+ Review and update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status 18:12:31 Agenda+ Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal 18:12:32 Agenda+ Review APG section 2.11 Dialog (Non-Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_nonmodal 18:12:41 zakim, take up item 1 18:12:41 agendum 1. "Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn] 18:13:25 scribe: jamesn 18:14:01 https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html 18:15:11 JN: this has the changes we talked about last week? 18:15:15 JK: yes 18:16:33 MichielBijl has joined #aria-apg 18:16:38 present +JaeunJemmaku 18:16:48 present+ Michiel_Bijl 18:17:00 present+ Jaeun_Jemma_Ku 18:18:29 MK: maybe should say how the group semantics are being exposed 18:18:58 mck_ has joined #aria-apg 18:18:58 MK: then have a consistent way of saying what you are doing across all 3 18:19:16 MK: group semantics for the set of checkboxes are exposed to screen readers... 18:19:44 MK: 1) Using fieldset containing the set, labelled by a legend 18:20:14 MK: 2) using an aria group with a label on the group, containing the checkoxes 18:20:36 MK: 3) using aria-labelledby on each checkbox to refer to its own label as well as the label for the set 18:21:46 JN: I like what is written already about the grouping label 18:23:53 JG: 3rd example the group label is defined in the checkbox label 18:24:45 MK: interesting to me that all condiments is inside the group 18:25:13 mck has joined #aria-apg 18:25:35 JG: think it should be 18:25:52 MK: with virtual cursor jaws exposes the group 18:25:58 MK: with tab it doesn't 18:26:17 JG: the first 2 the screen reader decides when to announce 18:26:25 ... the 3rd we force it 18:27:17 JG: still a label but doesn't effect APIs for No 3 18:27:28 ... maybe that needs to be a little more tweaked 18:27:37 MK: everything looks good w/ JAWS 18:29:06 JK: what would we say for No 3 18:30:40 MK: delete 1st bullet 18:30:53 ... 2nd needs to be more explicitly worded 18:36:08 MK: trying to figure out how to refer to the different parts of the label 18:36:18 JG: maybe talk about that at the beginning 18:39:01 JN: big improvement over what we had previously 18:39:45 JG: need a big discussion over non-interactive roles 18:39:51 ... talk nexy monday 18:41:55 zakim, next item 18:41:55 agendum 2. "Review and update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn] 18:43:52 zakim, close this item 18:43:52 agendum 2 closed 18:43:53 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:43:53 3. Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal [from jamesn] 18:43:55 zakim, next item 18:43:55 agendum 3. "Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal" taken up [from jamesn] 18:45:56 MK: some editorial things that need fixing 18:48:21 JN: tab and shift tab should allow moving to address bar before going bACK TO THE top/bottom of the dialog 18:48:25 mck_ has joined #aria-apg 18:48:38 MK: justification for this is weak IMO 18:48:54 MK: don't feel that that is an actual justification 18:49:12 MK: staying in context, especially for a screen reader or magnifier user is strong 18:50:16 MK: enter key should not always be the case 18:51:29 remove - if the purpose of the dialog is to gather information 18:57:02 click behaviours outside the dialog. Should we be addressing this in APG? 18:57:51 should we remove the line "Even if the user clicks outside of the dialog on the application which invoked the dialog, focus remains in the dialog. " 18:58:46 MK: is this just a design choice? 18:59:04 MK: should this just be deleted? 18:59:27 MB: to me it is the same as the escape keyt 19:00:09 MB: I think we can mention it - to me it is the same kind of thing as the escape key to close the dialog 19:00:36 MB: I am wondering if it is somethign the APG should be talking about at all 19:00:50 s/MB: I am/MK: I am/ 19:02:32 Zakim, que 19:02:32 I don't understand 'que', MichielBijl 19:02:38 Zakim, q+ 19:02:38 I see MichielBijl on the speaker queue 19:02:59 JN: moving to me depends on why the move is available. 19:04:32 MK: our guidance and notes needs to be understandable why it is there in relation to a11y 19:06:48 OK with me 19:07:07 JN: anyone disagree with removing the thing about mouse moving the dialog 19:07:59 janina has joined #aria-apg 19:09:32 MK: from a best practices standpoint it seems we should scratch the part about what to do when the dialog has no focusable item 19:09:51 MK: also nothing about large dialogs which may involve scrolling 19:10:34 JN: classic example would be a license agreement 19:10:42 MichielB_ has joined #aria-apg 19:11:28 MB: clicking outside a modal equals wanting to close it 19:11:38 MB: many lightboxes do this 19:12:22 JN: very much disagree - many dialogs require entry 19:12:41 JN: but think there are 2 types of dialogs. for lighboxzes i agree 19:12:49 MK: think this is a general UX issue 19:13:16 MK: not sure whether clicking outside the dialog is a severe accessibility issue. 19:13:34 MK: think the APG should be silent on the matter 19:15:38 mck has joined #aria-apg 19:16:42 mck_ has joined #aria-apg 19:16:57 MK: last bullet seems to be not useful 19:17:07 JN: "make sure your interface works" 19:17:24 MK: remove last mullet 19:17:41 s/mullet/bullet 19:18:19 mck__ has joined #aria-apg 19:18:39 MK: do we want the extra alertfialog stuff in the roles and properties section 19:19:24 MK: add aria-desribedby in the roles states and properties section 19:20:23 mck__ has joined #aria-apg 19:21:09 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29303 19:26:54 present+ Matt, Jon, James 19:27:00 rrsagent, make minutes 19:27:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn 19:28:09 present- JaeunJemmaku 19:28:18 rrsagent, make minutes 19:28:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl 19:28:37 chair: Matt_King 19:28:39 rrsagent, make minutes 19:28:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl 19:40:15 Meeting: ARIA APG TF 19:40:18 rrsagent, make minutes 19:40:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn 19:40:37 scribeOptions: -final 19:41:54 RRSAgent, stop