IRC log of aria on 2015-11-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:22:51 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 17:22:51 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-irc
- 17:22:53 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 17:22:53 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aria
- 17:22:55 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 17:22:55 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 17:22:56 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 17:22:56 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 November 2015
- 17:23:49 [MichaelC]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0184.html
- 17:23:56 [MichaelC]
- chair: MichaelC
- 17:24:03 [MichaelC]
- regrets: Rich, Michiel
- 17:31:53 [fesch]
- fesch has joined #aria
- 17:31:57 [joanie]
- present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
- 17:32:00 [fesch]
- present+ fesch
- 17:32:58 [janina]
- present+ janina
- 17:36:21 [clown]
- present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:37:08 [janina]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/f18bba4c6c569e507d6c62096d3b41263e67887c/html-aam/html-aam.html
- 17:41:18 [janina]
- scribe:
- 17:41:26 [MichaelC]
- present+ MichaelC
- 17:41:35 [MichaelC]
- present+ Bryan
- 17:41:45 [MichaelC]
- present+ Joseph
- 17:41:56 [fesch]
- scribe: Janina
- 17:42:02 [MichaelC]
- present- Joseph
- 17:42:31 [MichaelC]
- topic: Next week´s meeting
- 17:43:40 [janina]
- scribe: janina
- 17:44:02 [janina]
- mc: No meeting this coming Thursday, 26 November, because of U.S. Turkey Day!
- 17:44:23 [janina]
- topic: Issues & Actions
- 17:44:27 [janina]
- issue-504?
- 17:44:27 [trackbot]
- issue-504 -- radio shouldn't have aria-selected -- open
- 17:44:27 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/504
- 17:45:19 [janina]
- mc: believe it's done
- 17:45:23 [janina]
- clown: core-aam?
- 17:45:26 [janina]
- jd: I checked
- 17:45:31 [jamesn]
- jamesn has joined #aria
- 17:45:55 [MichaelC]
- present+ JamesN
- 17:46:01 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close Issue-504
- 17:46:02 [MichaelC]
- close issue-504
- 17:46:02 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-504.
- 17:46:13 [janina]
- action-1736?
- 17:46:13 [trackbot]
- action-1736 -- James Nurthen to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-10-19 -- OPEN
- 17:46:13 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1736
- 17:46:33 [janina]
- jn: discussed at tpac
- 17:46:35 [clown]
- issue-624?
- 17:46:35 [trackbot]
- issue-624 -- Primary Action Concept -- raised
- 17:46:35 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/624
- 17:46:40 [janina]
- jn: I'm to finish a proposal
- 17:46:49 [janina]
- jn: Yet to do that, though
- 17:47:02 [janina]
- mc: so, still pending
- 17:47:22 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, associate issue-624 with action-1736
- 17:47:22 [trackbot]
- action-1736 (Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button) associated with issue-624.
- 17:47:57 [janina]
- [general concern that Leonie had concerns about this]
- 17:49:01 [jamesn]
- it is in here http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-aria-minutes.html
- 17:49:19 [clown]
- specifically: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-aria-minutes.html#item03
- 17:49:29 [janina]
- mc: Weneed to know whether Leonie's concern was on behalf of Web Platforms WG
- 17:49:42 [janina]
- jn: She wasn't in the room when we discussed at TPAC
- 17:52:57 [janina]
- action-1688?
- 17:52:57 [trackbot]
- action-1688 -- James Nurthen to Draft proposal for aria-interactive -- due 2015-09-23 -- OPEN
- 17:52:57 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1688
- 17:53:13 [janina]
- mc: Rich is asking whether we can close this?
- 17:53:30 [janina]
- jn: Think it's too late to do anything meaningful with this right now
- 17:54:16 [janina]
- jn: Unless we allow ARIA-Activedescendent on on role of application
- 17:54:28 [janina]
- clown: so application has children
- 17:54:32 [janina]
- jn: could be, no?
- 17:54:42 [janina]
- jn: a chart, with focusable elements in SVG
- 17:54:46 [janina]
- clown: OK
- 17:55:02 [janina]
- jd: Also fits with Matt's recent additions
- 17:55:21 [janina]
- jn: currently works, but is a conformance error
- 17:55:47 [mck]
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- 17:56:18 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-activedescendant
- 17:56:21 [janina]
- mc: suggest closing, and raise new action to raise the proposed resolution
- 17:56:25 [janina]
- jd: on me, please
- 17:56:41 [MichaelC]
- action-1688: seems there isn´t support for this approach; instead, adding aria-activedescendant to application seems acceptable
- 17:56:41 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-1688 Draft proposal for aria-interactive.
- 17:56:47 [MichaelC]
- close action-1688
- 17:56:47 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1688.
- 17:57:12 [MichaelC]
- action: joanie to put aria-activedescendant on application and request WG review
- 17:57:12 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1743 - Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-11-26].
- 17:58:42 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: put Activedescendent on role application -- needs confirmation
- 17:58:50 [mck]
- present+ matt_king
- 17:59:26 [janina]
- [matt has joined the call, so we're rehashing the above]
- 18:00:23 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, associate action-1743 with product-17
- 18:00:23 [trackbot]
- action-1743 (Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review) associated with product-17.
- 18:01:08 [clown]
- <application><group aria-activedescendant="foo"> … </group></application> (JamesN's current situation).
- 18:01:37 [janina]
- mk: app has no subclasses ...
- 18:01:41 [janina]
- mk: see no downsides
- 18:02:10 [clown]
- proposal: <application aria-activedescendant="foo"> … </application>
- 18:02:51 [MichaelC]
- action-1743: this is a spin-off from action-1688 whose approach we decided not to pursue
- 18:02:51 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-1743 Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review.
- 18:03:35 [janina]
- [discussion on implication for aapis]
- 18:08:13 [clown]
- http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
- 18:13:44 [janina]
- mk: hard for browser to conform to 5.2.1 in mapping
- 18:13:47 [janina]
- jn: yes
- 18:14:17 [janina]
- mk: concerned will have focus, but might not have role and label, so what then?
- 18:14:25 [janina]
- mk: without an implicit
- 18:14:41 [janina]
- jn: should be an authoring error
- 18:14:47 [clown]
- http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-activedescendant (see 3rd paragraph)
- 18:14:57 [janina]
- fe: in svg we have explicit requirements on what's put into the tree
- 18:17:11 [MichaelC]
- issue-633?
- 18:17:11 [trackbot]
- issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- closed
- 18:17:11 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
- 18:20:40 [janina]
- mk: would like to see language somewhere that makes it clear elements referred to by activedescendent, if not in a context with required or implicit semantics, that authors must provide role and label
- 18:20:54 [MichaelC]
- action-1743: work with Matt to make it clear elements referred to by aria-activedescendant have a clear context
- 18:20:54 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-1743 Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review.
- 18:22:04 [janina]
- mc: suggest we do issue triage ...
- 18:22:17 [janina]
- issue-411?
- 18:22:17 [trackbot]
- issue-411 -- Consider aria-description which would take a string like aria-label -- open
- 18:22:17 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/411
- 18:22:32 [janina]
- mc: more than 4 years old, obe?
- 18:22:58 [janina]
- mk: another feature takes care of this?
- 18:23:17 [janina]
- mk: allows a string attribute ...
- 18:23:38 [janina]
- mc: not part of recent description discussions -- we're looking for a single solution that meets all use cases
- 18:23:50 [janina]
- mc: suggest we don't meet this in 1.1. Could move to 2.0
- 18:23:53 [janina]
- mk: suggest 2.0
- 18:24:17 [janina]
- mk: thinking of specific kinds of help, e.g. for keyboard
- 18:24:32 [janina]
- mc: we have keyboard-shortcuts help
- 18:24:49 [janina]
- mc: notes we intend next published draft will be CR and soon
- 18:24:57 [janina]
- mc: suggest best with this at this time is 2.0
- 18:25:00 [joanie]
- +1 to keeping it open, but for 2.0 so as not to make things messy
- 18:25:01 [janina]
- mk: OK
- 18:25:14 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, associate issue-411 with product-2
- 18:25:14 [trackbot]
- issue-411 (Consider aria-description which would take a string like aria-label) associated with product-2.
- 18:25:26 [janina]
- issue-427?
- 18:25:26 [trackbot]
- issue-427 -- Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element -- open
- 18:25:26 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/427
- 18:25:41 [janina]
- mc: also a 4-year old issue
- 18:25:49 [janina]
- clown: alex's new api
- 18:25:52 [janina]
- fe: also wapa
- 18:26:01 [janina]
- mc: close? Saying wapa?
- 18:26:05 [janina]
- [agreement]
- 18:26:20 [MichaelC]
- issue-427: WAPA proposal would meet this requirement
- 18:26:20 [trackbot]
- Notes added to issue-427 Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element.
- 18:26:29 [MichaelC]
- close issue-427
- 18:26:29 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-427.
- 18:26:40 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close issue-427 as overcome by WAPA
- 18:26:43 [janina]
- issue-497?
- 18:26:43 [trackbot]
- issue-497 -- When features require an element with a particular role be present (e.g., grid requires that gridcell be owned by row), implicit native semantics, if defined, count (e.g., tr without a role attribute counts as an element with role row) -- open
- 18:26:44 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/497
- 18:27:12 [janina]
- jn: think this is now covered
- 18:27:21 [janina]
- mk: was an exception ... but not verified
- 18:29:58 [joanie]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html
- 18:32:43 [janina]
- mc: Possible we need a newer, more explicit issue, but think this issue should close
- 18:33:16 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close Issue-497 and see how things go
- 18:33:18 [MichaelC]
- close issue-497
- 18:33:18 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-497.
- 18:33:25 [janina]
- issue-504?
- 18:33:26 [trackbot]
- issue-504 -- radio shouldn't have aria-selected -- closed
- 18:33:26 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/504
- 18:33:43 [janina]
- jd: Already closed this
- 18:33:51 [janina]
- mc: oops
- 18:34:05 [janina]
- issue-526?
- 18:34:05 [trackbot]
- issue-526 -- Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1 -- open
- 18:34:05 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526
- 18:34:22 [janina]
- mc: Hmm, this is "see how it goes" ...
- 18:34:34 [janina]
- jn: Isn't this now allowed?
- 18:34:37 [janina]
- mk: don't think so
- 18:34:38 [clown]
- action-1405?
- 18:34:38 [trackbot]
- action-1405 -- Joanmarie Diggs to For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global attrs to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics -- due 2015-06-25 -- CLOSED
- 18:34:38 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1405
- 18:35:29 [jamesn]
- I want to make sure i don't have to write <button role="button" aria-pressed="true">
- 18:35:47 [joanie]
- From my statement in the action: "However, authors must only use non-global states and properties on elements with a role supporting the state or property; either defined as an explicit WAI-ARIA role, **or as defined by the host language semantic matching an appropriate WAI-ARIA role**."(emphasis added)
- 18:36:26 [janina]
- mc: Perhaps we keep open and action someone for a proposal
- 18:38:01 [janina]
- [group noting JD's quote from the spec above]
- 18:38:11 [janina]
- mc: Looking at today's pub ...
- 18:38:20 [janina]
- mc: Still in the text ...
- 18:38:31 [janina]
- mc: so we can close?
- 18:38:57 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close issue-526 as completed
- 18:39:01 [clown]
- +1
- 18:39:02 [MichaelC]
- close issue-526
- 18:39:02 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-526.
- 18:39:04 [jamesn]
- +1
- 18:39:15 [MichaelC]
- issue-526: met by text is spec "However, authors must only use non-global states and properties on elements with a role supporting the state or property; either defined as an explicit WAI-ARIA role, **or as defined by the host language semantic matching an appropriate WAI-ARIA role**."(emphasis added)
- 18:39:15 [trackbot]
- Notes added to issue-526 Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1.
- 18:39:50 [janina]
- mk: asking whewhy more grid changes weren't forthcoming ...
- 18:40:02 [janina]
- jd: see above uri ... looking ....
- 18:40:23 [joanie]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html
- 18:40:32 [janina]
- mc: so awaiting further discussion
- 18:41:23 [joanie]
- action-1725
- 18:41:24 [trackbot]
- action-1725 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create a proposal for an article feed -- due 2015-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 18:41:24 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1725
- 18:41:25 [janina]
- action-1725?
- 18:41:25 [trackbot]
- action-1725 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create a proposal for an article feed -- due 2015-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 18:41:25 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1725
- 18:41:41 [MichaelC]
- Rich: Need further discussion on action 1725 related to list post https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html
- 18:42:01 [janina]
- issue-561?
- 18:42:01 [trackbot]
- issue-561 -- We need @aria-placeholder as backup for @placeholder in custom fields. -- open
- 18:42:01 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/561
- 18:42:13 [janina]
- jd: done
- 18:42:21 [MichaelC]
- close issue-561
- 18:42:21 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-561.
- 18:42:31 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close issue-561 as done
- 18:42:48 [janina]
- clown: already has mappings!!
- 18:42:57 [janina]
- issue-610?
- 18:42:57 [trackbot]
- issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
- 18:42:57 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
- 18:43:25 [janina]
- mk: on my list, want to do this for 1.1, and could be a simple change ...
- 18:43:41 [janina]
- mc: Action on James, reassign?
- 18:43:46 [janina]
- mk: I'm hot for this one!
- 18:45:36 [janina]
- issue-619?
- 18:45:36 [trackbot]
- issue-619 -- ARIA 1.1 should disallow host languages from declaring @aria-label from being declared in direct semantic conflict with a host language attribute. -- open
- 18:45:36 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/619
- 18:45:50 [janina]
- mc: Huh?
- 18:46:15 [janina]
- mc: OK, have action and I'll get to it
- 18:46:56 [janina]
- issue-639?
- 18:46:56 [trackbot]
- issue-639 -- Making key events work automatically on focusable elements matching certain roles (e.g. button, link, checkbox), that have click event handlers -- open
- 18:46:56 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/639
- 18:47:15 [janina]
- mc: Is this an ARIA issue?
- 18:47:46 [janina]
- clown: If role=button browser auto makes space work????
- 18:47:54 [janina]
- jd: hard to implement
- 18:48:05 [janina]
- jd: Chaas interested in this
- 18:50:31 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Move to 2.0 so we can discuss again, but may not really be an ARIA issue
- 18:51:45 [janina]
- issue-641?
- 18:51:45 [trackbot]
- issue-641 -- Abstract role section allows nameFrom content, and some subclassed roles under section do not allow nameFrom:contents (even definition, img, and math, which seems like they should) -- open
- 18:51:45 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/641
- 18:51:59 [joanie]
- s/hard to implement/seems hard to implement in a performant fashion/
- 18:52:44 [janina]
- mk: we were concerned whether inheritance issues ...
- 18:53:03 [janina]
- mc: suggest an action to implement simply ... may not even need confirmation
- 18:53:12 [janina]
- mc: JD can raise issues if needed?
- 18:53:16 [janina]
- jn: worth 1.1 time?
- 18:53:25 [janina]
- mc: it is cleanups
- 18:53:53 [MichaelC]
- action: joanie to implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out
- 18:53:53 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1744 - Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-11-26].
- 18:54:03 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, associate action-1744 with issue-641
- 18:54:03 [trackbot]
- action-1744 (Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out) associated with issue-641.
- 18:54:13 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: See action-1744
- 18:54:36 [janina]
- issue-648?
- 18:54:36 [trackbot]
- issue-648 -- Role computation with native host language semantics -- open
- 18:54:36 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/648
- 18:54:59 [janina]
- jd: looks like a dup
- 18:55:06 [janina]
- mc: yes
- 18:55:27 [janina]
- mc: suggest we wait for rich
- 18:55:31 [janina]
- [agreement]
- 18:55:44 [janina]
- issue-680?
- 18:55:44 [trackbot]
- issue-680 -- Create a new glossary definition called "Value of a Control". That has the following proposed definition. -- open
- 18:55:44 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/680
- 18:56:12 [janina]
- clown: did, diss'd
- 18:56:38 [MichaelC]
- issue-680: glossary definition was created, implemented, not liked, removed, so closing
- 18:56:38 [trackbot]
- Notes added to issue-680 Create a new glossary definition called "Value of a Control". That has the following proposed definition..
- 18:56:40 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close issue-680 is done, and dumped
- 18:56:43 [MichaelC]
- close issue-680
- 18:56:43 [trackbot]
- Closed issue-680.
- 18:56:54 [janina]
- issue-682?
- 18:56:54 [trackbot]
- issue-682 -- Clarify what happens to required owned childrens' roles when native host language parent is overridden with a WAI-ARIA role. -- open
- 18:56:54 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/682
- 18:57:17 [janina]
- clown: believe this has been dealt with
- 18:57:22 [janina]
- mk: when is this an issue?
- 18:58:19 [janina]
- jd: believe belongs in mapping spec
- 18:58:23 [janina]
- jd: agree with issue
- 18:58:34 [janina]
- mc? so implementation guide for 1.1?
- 18:59:52 [MichaelC]
- action: clown to make a proposal to address issue-682
- 18:59:52 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1745 - Make a proposal to address issue-682 [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-11-26].
- 19:00:04 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, associate action-1745 with issue-682
- 19:00:04 [trackbot]
- action-1745 (Make a proposal to address issue-682) associated with issue-682.
- 19:00:13 [janina]
- RESOLUTION Move issue-682 to product 1.1 implementation guide; create action for clown to address
- 19:00:47 [janina]
- mc: we're at the hour, and we've handled about half of the open issues! Excellent
- 19:01:40 [janina]
- zakim, bye
- 19:01:40 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, fesch, janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MichaelC, Bryan, JamesN, matt_king
- 19:01:40 [Zakim]
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- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html janina
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