00:03:02 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
00:03:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-irc
00:03:07 chair: paulc
00:03:08 See https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#MSE
00:03:12 scribe: joesteele
00:03:16 nsakai has joined #html-media
00:03:18 rrsagent, generate minutes
00:03:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
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00:05:14 present+ markw
00:05:44 agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#EME
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00:05:50 present+ joesteele
00:05:52 not eme, mse
00:05:53 present+ jdsmith
00:05:54 present+ paulc
00:06:03 present+ giuseppe
00:06:06 agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#MSE
00:06:09 doh!
00:06:20 paulc: intros — working on MSE today
00:06:35 … HTML-WG is chartered until this weekend
00:06:40 … will discuss more in a bit
00:06:51 YusukeN has joined #html-media
00:06:51 … most deliverables of this WG are completed or are in the process
00:07:07 … approval is immanent
00:07:18 igarashi has joined #html-media
00:07:19 … with the exception of the Media Task Force work
00:07:22 Bill has joined #html-media
00:07:32 … this meeting is for the Media TF discussion
00:07:38 rrsagent, generate minutes
00:07:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
00:08:10 paulc: I have ordered this agenda in a reaosnable fashion
00:08:26 hjlee has joined #html-media
00:08:45 … PLH will be talking to us about the status of the WG
00:08:55 … item #3 is about how to re-publish MSE
00:09:13 … then move into tehcnical material — two issues and are in github
00:09:18 … agenda has the links
00:09:30 rrsagent, generate minutes
00:09:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
00:09:49 paulc: wante dto cover the normative reference issues
00:10:00 … then we move into the more tehcnical outstanding issues
00:10:09 … series of related issues that Jerry has been looking at
00:10:26 … item#6 on the agenda is 9 sep issues that the editors and I decided need more disucssion
00:10:35 … many have been advanced in the last 72 hours
00:10:48 timeless has joined #html-media
00:10:49 paulc: if we get down to item 6.9 we will declare victory
00:10:52 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:10:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:11:05 RRSAgent, make logs world
00:11:07 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:11:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:11:20 paulc: item 7 are 3 issues proposed by the editors to be in V.Next
00:11:34 … Matt sent out an update earlier on the test suite status
00:11:52 … Ross sent out an update on ACTION 84 a couple of days ago
00:11:55 meeting: HTML Media F2F
00:12:11 s/doh!//
00:12:23 … last item is the status of “to be implemented"
00:12:39 … does anyone have suggestions for changing the order?
00:12:55 MattWolentz: looks good to me
00:13:00 s/agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#EME//
00:13:18 s/…/.../G
00:13:21 paulc: if I can confirm the issue are right — will ask the editors to just give the current status
00:13:22 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:13:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:13:52 MattWolentz: should move the WG stuff to the top of the agenda? Dave Dorwin would liek to be in on that
00:14:01 s|agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#EME||
00:14:06 s|s/agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2015-10-Agenda#EME//||
00:14:07 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:14:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:14:08 paulc: we arranged to do that early in the agend so Chris Wilson can be here for that
00:14:17 MarkVickers has joined #html-media
00:14:19 s/agend/agenda/
00:14:23 s/not eme, mse//
00:14:27 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:14:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:14:39 paulc: let’s do intros
00:14:47 s|s///||
00:15:11 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:15:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:15:23 paulc: let’s get going
00:15:32 scribe: timeless
00:15:40 topic: HTML WG and Timed Media Charter Status
00:15:50 jinbyung has joined #html-media
00:15:55 plh: at the entrance it says HTML WG
00:16:01 ... but we're not supposed to talk about HTML in this room
00:16:02 olivier has joined #html-media
00:16:08 ... this room is about XXX and EME
00:16:17 ... don't worry about that, i'll take care of it next week
00:16:25 ... when we talked about the future of the HTML WG and WebApps WG
00:16:33 ... we thought there was a lot of synergy between the two
00:16:38 s/wante dto/wanted to/
00:16:42 ... the work between HTML and markup is narrower
00:16:43 s/XXX/MSE/
00:16:50 ... merging the two groups would create a Super Super WG
00:16:54 s/tehcnical/technical/
00:16:56 ... originally we wanted 4 groups
00:17:03 ... one was Media
00:17:03 yosuke has joined #html-media
00:17:07 s/disucssion/discussion/
00:17:07 ... we thought that was logical
00:17:11 ... it would cover MSE, EME
00:17:17 ... and how do we do "media on the web"
00:17:30 ... many doing media, DAP, WebRTC, EME, MSE, ...
00:17:47 ZZZ: we can't hear you well on the bridge, there's an echo
00:17:52 plh: I thought I could exercise
00:18:01 ... we have lots of groups working on Audio/Video APIs
00:18:06 ... no one looking at the bigger picture
00:18:14 ... do their apis make sense when you put them together
00:18:21 ... Web Audio WG and WebRTC WG as well
00:18:31 ... we thought that would be a great opportunity for a group to look at those questions
00:18:41 ... and ultimately be responsible for the core part of the media stack
00:18:41 s/MattWolentz/MattWolenetz/
00:19:00 ... even though we didn't want to touch Web Audio / WebRTC before they were done w/ that
00:19:02 s/ZZZ/MattWolenetz/
00:19:07 ... we decided we need more time to think about that
00:19:15 ... so we decided to create WebPlatform for a year
00:19:22 ... we knew we could do Timed Media WG
00:19:26 rrsagent, draft minutes
00:19:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
00:19:29 ... that's how that charter came up to be
00:19:43 ... during AC Review, there were concerns about whether it was useful to have a separate WG
00:19:49 ... why not just put it in Web Platform instead?
00:20:01 ... and we know we need to work on Core Media, and we don't know how to work on that
00:20:05 ... we have a Problem, but no Solution
00:20:07 shoko has joined #html-media
00:20:09 Draft (not approved) Timed Media WG charter: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/timed-media-wg.html
00:20:10 ... too early to create charter
00:20:16 ... that's why it isn't launched yet
00:20:19 ... we needed more time
00:20:28 ... problem w/ AC Review (of Timed Media)
00:20:36 ... we knew we had a lot of support -- except two
00:20:51 ... we didn't know how many Members would support EME/MSE in Web Platform
00:21:05 ... we didn't know if we would have support for putting it into Timed Media WG
00:21:13 ... if we can't split work on Media out of Web Platform WG
00:21:19 ... then we'd never be able to split anything
00:21:29 ... and we'd be stuck w/ a giant for a long time
00:21:34 ... admitting failure, a year in advance
00:21:53 ... then there's the question: are the companies working on EME/MSE willing to join the Web Platform WG
00:22:09 ... I need to understand the answers to those questions to be able to choose a path forward
00:22:13 ... there were four paths
00:22:16 s/reaosnable/reasonable/
00:22:32 ... Director could simply approve Timed Media Charter submitted to AC in July
00:22:39 ... second: create group for just EME/MSE
00:22:41 s/tehcnical/technical/
00:22:46 rrsagent, draft minutes
00:22:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
00:22:48 ... don't need additional scope
00:22:59 ... just need Charter around the TF
00:23:11 ... third: need a group w/ a larger charter to include MSE/EME
00:23:14 Alternatives:
00:23:14 s/liek/like/
00:23:18 ... need new charter
00:23:25 ... fourth: why another WG, just fold into Web Platform
00:23:25 1. Charter the Timed Media WG as proposed
00:23:34 ... w/ risk that some won't be able/willing to joins
00:23:35 2. Charter a new WG for just MSE/EME
00:23:44 ... and thus we'd have lawyer warnings and lose patent access
00:23:50 3. Fold MSE/EME deliverables into the WebApps WG
00:23:53 ... I don't expect you to answer those questions
00:24:02 ... s/Director/first: Director
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00:24:15 s/Webapps WG/Web Platform WG/
00:24:24 s/3/4
00:24:34 4. Make changes to the Timed Media WG given AC input
00:24:36 RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:24:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-html-media-minutes.html timeless
00:24:38 q+
00:24:39 s/4/3
00:24:45 q?
00:24:47 ack paulc
00:24:48 q+
00:24:50 ddorwin has joined #html-media
00:25:09 paulc: plh, "2"; is a variation of "2" to keep the HTML WG around?
00:25:15 plh: yes, although i'd propose we rename it
00:25:18 ... that's basically
00:25:22 Zakim has joined #html-media
00:25:25 paulc: that's effectively what you've done until Halloween
00:25:25 q+
00:25:28 ... ok
00:25:30 ack cwilso
00:25:45 cwilso: MattWolenetz, i'll try to speak up
00:25:53 ... Chris Wilson, Google
00:26:07 ... we were one of the Members who objected to the proposed Timed Media WG Charter
00:26:19 ... early on in this process, I had said it might make sense to split Media out into a WG
00:26:27 ... reasons we objected for splitting out was twofold
00:26:40 ... one was to have a WG wrapping all around Timed Media
00:26:51 ... low level, EME/MSE, Web Audio, Timed Media
00:27:01 ... as an editor of Web Audio, we have a lot of interaction w/ WebRTC
00:27:25 ... we'd need to take on specific deliverables to the web platform
00:27:30 ... I don't want to lose momentum
00:27:37 ... I don't want to create WGs for narrow specifications
00:27:46 ... that model was painful, very narrow set of participants
00:27:55 hax has joined #html-media
00:27:57 ... i'd rather convince Members to join a large group, e.g. Web Platform
00:28:08 ... other piece is: really understanding who'd chair
00:28:12 ... what participation would be
00:28:21 ... just working on ...
00:28:25 ... EME/MSE
00:28:30 ... really good things, but...
00:28:31 q?
00:28:46 paulc: let's make sure we have everyone on same page
00:28:53 ... I'm displaying the proposed Timed Media WG charter
00:28:58 ... cwilso referred to deliverables
00:29:05 ... MSE, EME, low level audio
00:29:22 ... attempt to meet cwilso 's goals is in the third item here: "low level audio and video support"
00:29:34 ... also, proposed HTMLMediaElement errata/new additions
00:29:56 q+
00:29:56 ... connundrum: if we don't have a group like this, then we wouldn't have anyone trying to do a module outside of WebPlatform WG
00:30:05 ... cwilso is right, main items are MSE/EME
00:30:20 ... specifying maintenance was an attempt to assign the proposed WG a specific part of HTML5
00:30:30 ... partially as an experiment to see if it was possible to pull it out
00:30:39 ... and have it done by a concentrated group of people interested in media
00:30:53 ... useful to hear if people here have a preference in W3 on the four options
00:31:05 ... as plh noted, you don't have to express your company opinion
00:31:15 q+ to address