IRC log of wot-ap on 2015-10-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:02:39 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-irc
- 13:02:41 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:02:41 [Zakim]
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- 13:02:43 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 13:02:43 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 13:02:44 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web of Things Interest Group Teleconference
- 13:02:44 [trackbot]
- Date: 21 October 2015
- 13:03:29 [dsr]
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- 13:04:53 [kaz_]
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- 13:05:01 [michael]
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- 13:05:10 [jhund]
- Webex: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=ma8aa4594b4fc8a5d7728eb2a586917ce
- 13:05:59 [dsr]
- scribenick: dsr
- 13:06:02 [Claes]
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- 13:06:23 [dsr]
- meeting: APIs and Protocols Task Force
- 13:06:26 [Darko_Anicic]
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- 13:06:39 [dsr]
- chair: Johannes
- 13:07:27 [kaz_]
- Present+ Kaz
- 13:07:35 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:07:40 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:07:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_
- 13:07:44 [Claes]
- Present+ Claes_Nilsson
- 13:08:11 [kaz_]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:08:11 [Zakim]
- Present: Kaz, Claes_Nilsson
- 13:08:13 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Darko_Anicic, Claes, michael, kaz_, dsr, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhund, k_nimura, Sebastian, dape, taki, kudo, tidoust, kotakagi, Yingying, naokis, stakagi, tobie, schuki,
- 13:08:13 [Zakim]
- ... trackbot
- 13:08:32 [jhund]
- Present+ Johannes_Hund
- 13:09:02 [dsr]
- Present: Daniel, Ari, Dave, Claes, Kaz, Kazuaki, Kotakagi, Naokis, Noriatsu, Sebastian, Takuki, Yingying
- 13:09:29 [dsr]
- Joahannes introduces the meeting.
- 13:10:08 [dsr]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0072.html
- 13:10:20 [dsr]
- any other topics for today?
- 13:10:20 [dape]
- Present+ Daniel_Peintner
- 13:11:16 [dsr]
- Kaz asks Johannes to discuss the Yokohama T2TRG (IRTF) meeting.
- 13:11:48 [kaz_]
- -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting_29-30_October_2015,_Sapporo,_Japan#Joint_IRTF_T2T_RG_and_W3C_WoT_IG_meeting_in_Yokohama_on_31st_Oct._.2F1st_Nov. IRTF joint meeting
- 13:11:53 [dsr]
- Johannes: this would follow on from the previous WoT IG/T2TRG meeting in Prague
- 13:12:59 [dsr]
- This meeting will take place in Room 304, InterContinental Yokohama Grand, 1-1 Minatomirai Nishi-Ku
- 13:12:59 [dsr]
- Yokohama, Japan 200-8522
- 13:13:36 [dsr]
- As the IETF groups are already active over the weekend it seems pragmatic to co locate the meeting in Yokohama. We are going to start early on Saturday 2015-10-31 (09:00) and end officially on Sunday 2015-11-01 at 16:00.
- 13:15:24 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft mintues
- 13:15:24 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz_. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 13:15:33 [dsr]
- Kaz: do we to register and pay for the IETF?
- 13:15:37 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:15:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_
- 13:15:50 [dsr]
- Johannes: no, the IRTF meetings are free.
- 13:16:04 [dsr]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 13:16:14 [kaz_]
- present+ Johannes, Darko, Michael, Stakagi
- 13:16:16 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:16:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_
- 13:16:18 [dsr]
- Topic: TPAC preparation
- 13:17:04 [dsr]
- We should plan for the 3 hour break-out and gather suggestions in the wiki.
- 13:17:48 [kaz_]
- i/introduces the meeting/topic: Preliminaries/
- 13:17:49 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:17:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_
- 13:18:27 [kaz_]
- s/the IRTF meetings are/this IRTF joint meeting is/
- 13:18:28 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:18:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_
- 13:18:53 [dsr]
- Johannes: we have an in depth discussion on modelling during the last face to face. This time I would like to spend some time on scripting APIs
- 13:19:51 [dsr]
- Dave supports the idea of a discussion on scripting
- 13:20:02 [kaz]
- i|We should plan|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting_29-30_October_2015,_Sapporo,_Japan#Agenda TPAC agenda|
- 13:20:04 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:20:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
- 13:21:09 [dsr]
- Claes: maybe we could discuss bi-directional communication, keep-alive, firewalls and so forth.
- 13:21:53 [dsr]
- Daniel: we should also try to set some milestones for the task force
- 13:22:38 [dsr]
- Johannes: yes this can be part of the goal setting and what kind of outcome we are looking for
- 13:24:41 [dsr]
- Daniel: maybe we should look at what people have been implementing and discuss what would be needed for convergence?
- 13:25:06 [dsr]
- Dave: we should look at messaging over protocols, e.g. web sockets, and MQTT where REST doesn’t really apply.
- 13:25:45 [dsr]
- Dave: we should clarify what the benefits of REST are for the WoT
- 13:26:51 [dsr]
- Dave: let’s not forget MQTT and XMPP, etc. when it comes to messaging.
- 13:27:41 [dsr]
- Johannes: for XMPP you could layer REST on top of it or instead use a native messaging scheme
- 13:28:34 [dsr]
- Ari: in the IETF there is work on pub-sup with CoAP that we should be aware of
- 13:28:55 [dsr]
- Ari: Michael and I are co-authors of the corresponding Internet Draft
- 13:29:28 [dsr]
- Michael: an assessement of REST will feature strongly in the T2TRG meeting
- 13:30:29 [dsr]
- We should discuss how things fit together, rather than is something REST or not
- 13:30:52 [dsr]
- s/assessement/assessment/
- 13:32:35 [dsr]
- Ari: We could spend time on RESTful design for IoT, based upon my email yesterday, see: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0066.html
- 13:32:46 [dsr]
- Claes would like to hear more on that
- 13:33:40 [dsr]
- Johannes: I will gather ideas from today’s minutes for the TPAC agenda
- 13:36:22 [dsr]
- Johannes asks for input for the status report for the plenary session.
- 13:37:05 [dsr]
- Dave asks if we should note that we’re considering discussion of APIs for low level system interfaces, e.g. GPIO, I2C, SPI, etc.
- 13:37:26 [dsr]
- Johannes: yes I can mention that
- 13:40:53 [dsr]
- Johannes: I am looking for volunteers to help to fill out the landscape of what has been done either in companies or other standards organisations.
- 13:41:56 [dsr]
- Dave: I agree, and am reaching out to the Allseen alliance as an example.
- 13:42:29 [dsr]
- Michael: I can help with the OMA and IPSO Alliance. Do we have a table in the wiki we can fill out?
- 13:44:31 [kaz]
- -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/APIs_and_Protocols_TF#Technology_Landscape tech landscape wiki
- 13:45:19 [dsr]
- Johannes: we need to agree on a set of criteria before we can create the table
- 13:45:37 [Darko_Anicic]
- https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Discovery_Solutions_Iot_Consortia
- 13:45:45 [dsr]
- Michael: if we can add columns that would help
- 13:46:17 [kaz]
- i|https|-> https|
- 13:46:24 [kaz]
- s|https|-> https|
- 13:46:51 [kaz]
- s|Consortia|Consortia Discovery Solutions IoT Consortia|
- 13:46:57 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:46:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
- 13:49:31 [dsr]
- Dave: we could ask for contrbutions of implementation work by companies in the WoT IG, e.g. RWE and their LemonBeat work.
- 13:49:56 [dsr]
- Kaz: the Chirimen work too
- 13:50:54 [kaz]
- -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/thread.html#msg35 Mozilla work discussion
- 13:50:56 [dsr]
- Johannes: is anyone familiar with the AIOTI?
- 13:51:18 [dsr]
- Dave: yes for WG3 standardisation
- 13:52:34 [dsr]
- Dave: we should look at research projects, e.g. IoT-A, see http://www.iot-a.eu/public/public-documents
- 13:54:32 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:54:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
- 13:55:25 [dsr]
- Dave: once we have a preliminary document we can reach out to external industry alliances and SDO’s, e.g. the IIC
- 13:56:08 [dsr]
- Action: Johannes to prepare an initial table in the wiki for the AP TF
- 13:56:09 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-13 - Prepare an initial table in the wiki for the ap tf [on Johannes Hund - due 2015-10-28].
- 13:57:22 [dsr]
- Topic: Resuming discussion on low level APIs and role of browsers
- 13:57:38 [dsr]
- This follows on from the email thread on the list
- 13:58:18 [dsr]
- See: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0035.html
- 14:00:23 [joerg]
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- 14:00:42 [kaz]
- present+ Joerg
- 14:00:56 [dsr]
- Our API is from browser scripts to hardware capabilities like GPIO etc.
- 14:01:33 [dsr]
- see https://github.com/browserobo/WebGPIO and https://github.com/browserobo/WebI2C
- 14:03:47 [dsr]
- We will provide an explanation during TPAC in the breakout session.
- 14:04:13 [kaz]
- s/Our API/kotakagi: Our API/
- 14:04:22 [kaz]
- s/We will/kotakagi: We will/
- 14:04:25 [stakagi]
- Although a headless browser is also considered, browsers with a screen are many cases.
- 14:04:26 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:04:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
- 14:04:36 [dsr]
- Johannes: most people think of browsers as huge programs, but for Chirimen is more about headless browser which is much smaller, right?
- 14:05:34 [dsr]
- Does the browser have something like a web server?
- 14:06:13 [dsr]
- [ no answer - audio problems?]
- 14:06:42 [kaz]
- [ guess at least the Chirimen board has server capability as well ]
- 14:06:43 [stakagi]
- It is a client basically.
- 14:08:49 [stakagi]
- CHIRIMEN are a browser and a client basically.
- 14:08:51 [dsr]
- Dave: we should survey how different platforms have address the common low level capabilities
- 14:10:02 [dsr]
- Johannes: we need some way to structure the analysis - what things are done in a common way, and where things vary across platforms
- 14:10:28 [stakagi]
- However, since examination of the push function is going, a modern browser may play a role as a server.
- 14:11:48 [dsr]
- Dave: we should gather the set of the low level capabilities, some are very common, some are specific to families of chipsets
- 14:12:07 [dsr]
- s/chipsets/chip sets/
- 14:13:04 [dsr]
- Johannes: we could start with a list of run-times and SDKs
- 14:14:42 [stakagi]
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KykR4eNVB6w
- 14:15:02 [stakagi]
- this is one of chirimen's usecase
- 14:15:27 [dsr]
- Michael: the browser software is essentially a scripting engine and set of APIs. There must be a connection to a server to load the software. Can we come up with a thing description language that fits well with HTML
- 14:17:28 [dsr]
- This relates to HATEOAS ...
- 14:18:39 [dsr]
- Johannes: what is the benefit over say JSON?
- 14:18:56 [dsr]
- Michael: markup provides a DOM
- 14:19:56 [dsr]
- These are just different metadata formats that clients could support
- 14:20:55 [dsr]
- Johannes: browser have access to JSON and JavaScript, but not to CoAP and its link headers
- 14:21:58 [Yingying_]
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- 14:23:39 [dsr]
- Dave: other groups may be interested in different serialisations of metadata as RDF, e.g. XML & EXI, Turtle and N3, and so forth.
- 14:24:06 [dsr]
- Sebastian: yes if the underlying RDF is the same that would be feasible
- 14:25:26 [Darko_Anicic]
- s/Sebastian/dape
- 14:26:35 [dsr]
- Michael: if you stick with the web linking approach, this is applicable to most linked data
- 14:27:27 [dsr]
- JSON-LD allows you to separate the RDF node URIs so that you can use simple name/value pairs
- 14:28:57 [dsr]
- Dave: we will need to ensure that what we do is appealing to regular web developers who tend to have an alergic reaction to the overheads in RDF and XML namespaces
- 14:30:37 [dsr]
- Johannes: we need to collect the ideas we’ve discussed at enter it into the landscape wiki, any volunteers?
- 14:30:44 [dsr]
- Michael offers to help
- 14:31:07 [kotakagi]
- Sorry. My audio environment is not good. Please let me explain WebGPIO/I2C at breakout session or WoT IG F2F. And we have a plan to show you CHIRIMEN on Wednesday.
- 14:31:17 [dsr]
- Johannes: any other business
- 14:32:03 [dsr]
- … end of meeting and safe travels …
- 14:32:13 [stakagi]
- Bye,
- 14:32:21 [kotakagi]
- thanks. bye
- 14:32:28 [dsr]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:32:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html dsr
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