15:56:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
15:56:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-irc
15:56:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
15:56:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
15:56:16 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:56:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
15:56:17 <trackbot> Date: 14 October 2015
15:56:21 <janina> agenda?
15:56:25 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
15:56:25 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
15:56:25 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:56:25 <janina> agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
15:56:26 <janina> agenda+ MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html
15:56:28 <janina> agenda+ HTML 5.1 Alt Edits -- https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/
15:56:30 <janina> agenda+ Rechartering Progress [See Below]
15:56:33 <janina> agenda+ TPAC Update [See Below]
15:56:35 <janina> agenda+ ARIA.Next Items
15:56:38 <janina> agenda+  Other Task Force Updates; COGA; SVG; WG & TF Reorganizations
15:56:40 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:56:43 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
15:56:46 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:57:05 <janina>  present+ Janina
15:58:05 <fesch> fesch has joined #pf
15:58:59 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #PF
15:59:30 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya_Siegman
16:01:23 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:01:50 <fesch> present+ fesch
16:02:54 <JF> JF has joined #pf
16:03:09 <JF> Present+ JF
16:03:22 <fesch> scribe: fesch
16:04:10 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #pf
16:04:49 <JF> agenda?
16:05:47 <janina>  present+ Janina
16:06:04 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:06:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:06:52 <fesch> js: final prep for TPAC...
16:07:56 <JF> Present+ Katie haritos-Shea
16:08:20 <JF> s/haritos-Shea/Haritos-Shea
16:09:13 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #pf
16:09:28 <fesch> js: MAUR call for consensus is out there expires tomorrow
16:11:16 <JF> Q+ to ask about the new role attributes
16:11:19 <fesch> ts: had face to face in NY, more alignment with open web platform,
16:11:33 <tzviya> minutes from EPUB 3.1 Face to face https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RCGR48EfxgfsIaqxGsW-LVzpa2XdQ0ILI8iIzysSEVk/edit?usp=sharing
16:11:48 <fesch> ts: can ping me with questions
16:12:11 <janina> ack jf
16:12:11 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about the new role attributes
16:12:46 <fesch> jf: on list a bunch of new aria roles vs rel attribute
16:13:24 <fesch> ts: come to the dpub meeting tomorrow it is an hour long discussion
16:13:38 <MichaelC> +MichaelC
16:13:42 <MichaelC> +Rich
16:13:46 <jamesn> not west-coast friendly
16:13:53 <fesch> rs: rel doesn't exist in SVG... does not map to aria
16:14:07 <MichaelC> +JohnF
16:14:11 <MichaelC> +Gottfried
16:14:14 <MichaelC> +JamesN
16:14:25 <fesch> jf: not worried about mapping since mapping only applies to AT
16:15:12 <fesch> rs: not true, it can affect navigation and in the case of dpub, we have roles but we have additional semantic info as to where they go
16:15:25 <jamesn> q+
16:15:37 <fesch> rs: coga group already decided that they would use  aria for destination semantics
16:16:31 <fesch> rs: suggesting coga pick a few for inclusion in ARIA 1.1, in coga they are largely used for styling, dpub might use this for styling too
16:17:05 <fesch> jf: I will come to dpub meeting tomorrow
16:17:43 <fesch> rs: rel is a dumping ground, MSAA had an issue...
16:18:42 <fesch> js: this isn't new, have been looking at it for a while
16:19:33 <fesch> jn: dpub decided a way to do stuff, that may be the wrong thing to do at this point
16:19:34 <JF> Q+
16:19:47 <fesch> rs: they discussed them...
16:20:47 <fesch> jn: aria-destination doesn't exist anywhere right?
16:22:18 <fesch> jf: why we meet at PF we take the long view,  if we need to add to agenda for PF
16:22:41 <JF> ack JF
16:22:58 <JF> request that this beomces an agenda item for a future PF meeting
16:23:24 <jamesn> ack me
16:23:39 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:23:39 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
16:23:53 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #pf
16:23:59 <fesch> action-1669
16:23:59 <trackbot> action-1669 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ -- due 2015-09-16 -- OPEN
16:23:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1669
16:24:06 <Ryladog_> +Katie Haritos-Shea
16:24:35 <MichaelC> action-1669 due 1 week
16:24:35 <trackbot> Set action-1669 Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ due date to 2015-10-21.
16:24:37 <fesch> kh: make due next week
16:25:01 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:25:01 <Zakim> agendum 3. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
16:26:28 <fesch> no new working drafts... are we going to be tracking crytpo... ARIA in HTML, repeating document... selection...
16:26:38 <fesch> mc: nothing for us
16:26:43 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:26:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina]
16:27:00 <fesch> mc: nothing new
16:27:06 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:27:06 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, fesch
16:27:13 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:27:13 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, fesch
16:27:21 <fesch> zakim, close item
16:27:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', fesch
16:27:42 <fesch> zakim close this item
16:27:53 <fesch> zakim, close this item
16:27:53 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
16:27:54 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:54 <Zakim> 5. MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html [from janina]
16:28:03 <fesch> zakim, nest item
16:28:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'nest item', fesch
16:28:08 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:28:08 <Zakim> agendum 5. "MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html" taken up [from janina]
16:28:44 <fesch> js: can take up editing with Shane
16:29:03 <fesch> js: may make a big change in appendix B
16:29:25 <fesch> js; should that list include commenters
16:29:45 <fesch> md: I add them in a separate list
16:30:03 <fesch> s/mc/mc/
16:30:12 <fesch> s/md/mc/
16:30:24 <fesch> js: any other comments?
16:30:28 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:30:28 <Zakim> agendum 6. "HTML 5.1 Alt Edits -- https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/" taken up [from janina]
16:30:42 <cyns> cyns has joined #pf
16:31:06 <fesch> js: redafting about alts, please provide feedback on it
16:31:25 <fesch> js: will probably keep open past TPAC
16:31:30 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:31:30 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Rechartering Progress" taken up [from See Below]
16:32:11 <fesch> js: getting close, current status
16:35:46 <JF> Q+ to ask about whe (if?) we will start calling PF "APA"
16:39:07 <JF> msg/ jamesn I'm going to go to the dPub call tomorrow morning. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this is a little too knee-jerk. When your favorite tool is an ARIA hammer, every problem looks like an ARIA nail
16:39:34 <fesch> q?
16:39:41 <JF> s/msg/ jamesn I'm going to go to the dPub call tomorrow morning. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this is a little too knee-jerk. When your favorite tool is an ARIA hammer, every problem looks like an ARIA nail
16:40:26 <JF> ack JF
16:40:26 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about whe (if?) we will start calling PF "APA"
16:41:09 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:41:09 <Zakim> agendum 8. "TPAC Update" taken up [from See Below]
16:41:52 <fesch> js: there is an agenda for ARIA and APA,, fairly well formed
16:42:49 <MichaelC> q+
16:43:24 <fesch> rs: we are going to be ARIA 2.0, a community group, and getting stuff to CR, roles for twitter, facebook...
16:44:14 <fesch> js: APA talking with CSS, unclear how many can join
16:45:00 <fesch> js: not sure how much will participate on Friday
16:45:55 <fesch> js: remaining agenda - expectations on APA will be different than PF
16:46:28 <fesch> js: good thinking on spec review in when they come out quickly (every day)
16:47:13 <fesch> js:  one activity will be R&D task force - Marc Hakken, want time for that
16:47:48 <fesch> js: last session on Thursday, captcha, MAUR...
16:48:02 <fesch> js: anything we are missing?
16:48:43 <tzviya> q+
16:49:25 <MichaelC> ack me
16:50:05 <janina> ack tz
16:50:08 <fesch> mc: meeting planners are going to be labeling the meeting room for PF, look at separate agendas for ARIA and APA for that room
16:51:00 <fesch> zs: what will Marc and Jason be looking at in R&D?
16:51:41 <fesch> zakim, next item
16:51:41 <Zakim> agendum 9. "ARIA.Next Items" taken up [from janina]
16:52:38 <fesch> rs: if you want to get back to rel vs aria-destination - the floor is open
16:52:50 <janina> topic: rhel vs the world
16:53:27 <fesch> jf: I think it is a bigger issues, we are looking at expanding - we have heard from user agents that aria goes to AT
16:53:56 <fesch> jf: we already have a mechanism, for doing this
16:54:50 <fesch> rs: the coga people want to use the markup to drive styling.
16:55:30 <tzviya> q+
16:55:51 <fesch> rs: info is cross-cutting, why wouldn't AT want to not know the destination... that info is important to the user as it is AT.
16:56:25 <fesch> rs: we want to map into accessibility service layers, but ALSO consistent styling for COGA, digital books...
16:56:31 <joanie> s/rhel/rel/
16:57:11 <fesch> rs: were looking at special roles - so we asked why do we need a special role - they have need to know what the destination is.
16:57:37 <fesch> rs: coga wants to map to consistent styling, not AT
16:57:55 <fesch> rs: we are also trying to meet the timeframe for DPUB
16:58:30 <fesch> rs: the problem with rel, is it isn't limited, adds a level of confusion, also needs for SVG and SVG is going into digital books,
16:59:05 <fesch> rs: if we want it for assitstive technologies, rel is not in the accessibility APIs
16:59:59 <fesch> jf: we have heard repeatedly that ARIA attributes should not impact the GUI, rel is what you want to use, just by having a prefix to the attribute you fix the confusion problem
17:00:04 <janina> q?
17:00:30 <fesch> rs: we aren't asking the browsers venders to do anythings
17:00:47 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-minutes.html#item02
17:00:51 <fesch> ts: there may be confusion on what DPUB asked for.
17:01:20 <fesch> ts: so may want to go over  this in tomorrows meeting...
17:02:02 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/96
17:02:21 <fesch> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-minutes.html fesch
17:03:10 <fesch> rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-minutes.html fesch