See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 01 October 2015
<agarrison> +agarrison
<jeanne> +jeanne
<David> +David_MacDonald
<scribe> scribe:Detlev
<Kathy> https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
Kathy: Mobile-A11y-Extension is a
sketch how the extension framework is going to play out
... SOme new mobile techniques, others go under existing
techniques
... ..organised by guidelines. What's your thoughts?
Jeanne: Doc is in Respect to support automated publishing
<agarrison> So, is it like http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/ - just cut up into techniques?
Jeanne: Changes only made via github pull requests - don't add anything to it directly, especially no J, may cause issues
<agarrison> q
David: 2.5.1 structure issue -
CSS is not correct yet
... 2.5.1 should not remain in here
Kathy: This is agreed stuff but not yet public
David: Should WCAG be in here and the new stuff added?
Kathy: Should help place new mobile techniques under the relevant success criteria - but it's open to discussion
David: Not clear what the
proposal is - copying all of WCAG in here?
... People shouldn't perceive this as the updated full WCAG
Kathy: How shall we otherwise present techniques
David: Maybe it is enough to reference the WCAG guideline /SC numbers to make the difference obvious
<jeanne> +1 to short handles of WCAG and adding it to the Status
Kathy: Status of the doc should clarify the difference to exisitng WCAG - that it is to be considered in addition to WCAG
Alistair: mobile accessibility mapping is structured in a similar way (see URL above)
Kathy: this wasn't structured as
extension - some are best practices - we started with touch
accessibility and added necessary things
... Not xyet decided what will happen with the note - the
extension is where things will go
<David> http://davidmacd.com/blog/WCAG-extension-proposed-integration-into-WCAG.html
Kathy: WCAG WG is currently
working out how the extension should work
... THis is an overview t facilitate a suggestion how the
different reqs will fit into the extension (LV, cognitive,
mobile)
... Intended as outline of normative extension
... Extension is supposed to just add to, not subtract from
WCAG 2.0
Alistair: Maybe the text from
WCAG should be brought over so people can see what gets
extended where
... Will provide more context - may be changed later
David: This has no educational purpose ATM - no changes to normative WCAG 2.0 expected , no crossing out
Jeanne: Stil early days in figuing out what the extension will mean - all thoughts are OK now, Mobile a11y TF is spearheading the process, so it is valuable to identify issues (like having to make changes to normative WCAG 2.0)
Kathy: End user aspect, like
people creating responsive sites - would it make sense to have
new mobile SC with different twechniques - the actual end user
will know what is required for accessible development
... For them it will be easier to have all relevant info in one
place rather than resort to different places
... We have to consider end user view and usability of this
documentation
David: We need a view (quickref)
to synthesize stuff, incl. mobile
... Still early days - it may be more difficult to manage to
include all, it's a working doc for us
... Should be easy to aggregate for developers later
Kathy: Withing the Quickref there
canbe new guidelines and SC
... UAAG and WCAG chairs need input on how we can bring
together the different user needs and requirements
Alistair: Reading in different
documents looks like a problem - easier to have one synthesized
doc
... Looks different on a mobile browser
Kathy: Not sure how to bring in
hybrid apps using web views
... muich of it is platform specific (iOS / ANdroid etc)
... Current focus is straight web sites
Alistair: THe extensio bnmodel may also apply to techniques
<Alan_smith> + Alan
Jeanne: Whne req for updated Quickref were developed the need for a filter for 'mobile' was included
Jeann: we can be specific to the area the techniques apply to
David: We need mor techniques - including for hybrid
Kathy: One topic is text-resizing
which could be modified for different mobile paltforms
... will send out info on that
... We should go back to see what is mobile specific, like
1.3.3 Sensory characteristics - but telling people where
somethign is on the screen coan be really helpful, such things
should be taken into account
... A technique just being one way to meet the criteria
... Lets put techniques out to get feedback on what will prove
helpful for the new tocuh interaction paradigm
Alistair: 3D touch brings in new aspects, also time touch on Android
Alan: Things like duration can be very helpful for some users
David: We need to take into account the WCAG philosophy - there is a tension between actual use cases and the standard. There are sometimes new tech solutions which beg the question what should be required
<Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Touch_Accessibility_%28Guideline_2.5%29
Kathy: This doc is a snapshot of current agreements - we can countinue using Wiki
<Kathy> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html
Kathy: Davids wording solution - from equiring touch access to requiring that all touch access also works with AT turned on
David: Charter tells us we are
authorized to develop extensions
... There may be overlap between requirements, say of cognitive
and moble, so we may wend up with just one extension
This would address concern about complexity of having several extensions
Input from different TFs could feed into one extension - the process should encourage discussion to combine SC whereever possible
The Quickref will then bring that together for the outside user
David: Diagram has gained traction lots of +1
Alistair: Do Working groups work to common time scales?
David: No real coordination so far
Kathy: A challenge is the coordination between what the different task forces are doing
The WG needs to look at that and define how the results are going to be combined - it's currently being worked out within WG
Kathy: This should not become a
bottleneck but is a serious concern
... What are the basicv rules for extensions? It's likely that
there will be several extensions, not one
David: should be one extension at
the ens of the day
... the idea is to speed up the overall process - extensions
will be easier
Kathy: The way the focus on the working group topic and interaction with others work is still not finalised
<David> All functions available by touch (or button presses) are still available by touch (or button presses) after system assistive technology is turned on.
Kathy: Point about 2.5.4
Proposal
... The general gist was that everything that is offered for
touch should also work with AT turned on - has anyone worked on
the SC text?
<Kathy> 2.5.4 Modified Touch (5th draft): All functions available by touch (or button presses) are still available by touch (or button presses) after system assistive technology is turned on.
<Kathy> Suggested Modification: 2.5.4 Modified Touch (5th draft): All functions available by touch (or button presses) are available by touch (or button presses) with system assistive technology.
David: pointing to the latest draft of 2.5.4 - focus ios that everything has to work for people using AT - there is no pass-through gesture on Android - most is already available after pass-throuigh gesture. Not so on Android
<jon_avila> In my experience on iOS the pass through gesture doesn't allow you to lift your first -- I wonder if that could an issue.
David: Good wording for SC
Alistair: Impact on AT, example on date picker. AT can have big impact on a11y
<jon_avila> What assistive technology? If it works with Assistive Touch but not with VO -- it's available with AT but not with all.
Alistair: There may be unwanted interactions between different gestures for touch
David: In theory the pass-through gesture (on iOS) should enable other gestures
Jon: Pass through gesture may not
work in some cases
... Some gestures may work with some AT (assistive touch) but
not with VoiceOver
... The wording is a challenge, may not be specific enough
yet
David: We cannot enumerate all potential AT
Jon: We don't have a standard interface to work with like on the desktop. lots of inconsistency
David: The intention was that with any AT needed touch would work - focusing on the system level
Kathy: Please think about wording, make suggestions for changes
<jon_avila> My technique m23 is in draft form and ready for a review. It is on github.
Kathy: Lets pick up discussion next week
<Alan_smith> M007 was updated from my github version
Kathy: Kim and Jeanne won't be around for next few meetings
Zakim. list attendees
rssagent, make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Jeanne: One topic is/Kathy: One topic is/ Found Scribe: Detlev Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev Default Present: Kathy, agarrison, jeanne, David_MacDonald, Detlev, marcjohlic, jon_avila, Alan Present: Kathy agarrison jeanne David_MacDonald Detlev marcjohlic jon_avila Alan Found Date: 01 Oct 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]