12:56:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
12:56:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-sdw-irc
12:56:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:56:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
12:56:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
12:56:21 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:56:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
12:56:22 <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2015
12:56:32 <kerry> present+ kerry
12:56:38 <kerry> chair: kerry
12:56:55 <eparsons> eparsons has joined #sdw
12:56:59 <kerry> rrsagent, make logs public
12:57:26 <kerry> regrets+ phillipe thiran
12:57:32 <kerry> regrets+ jon blower
12:57:41 <eparsons> present+ eparsons
12:57:42 <kerry> regrets+ bill roberts
12:57:50 <kerry> regrets+ phila
12:58:17 <kerry> regrets+ rachel heaven
12:58:27 <frans> I am having audio troubles. I will reboot and be back shortly, I hope.
12:58:28 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
12:58:30 <kerry> regrets+ bart van leeuwen
12:59:41 <Linda> present+ Linda
12:59:55 <Alejandro_Llaves> Alejandro_Llaves has joined #sdw
13:00:07 <AZ> AZ has joined #sdw
13:00:10 <kerry> scribe: linda
13:00:16 <Alejandro_Llaves> present+ Alejandro_Llaves
13:00:22 <kerry> scribenick: linda
13:00:58 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #sdw
13:02:12 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
13:02:30 <frans> frans has joined #sdw
13:02:32 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
13:02:36 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
13:02:40 <frans> present+ frans
13:02:44 <LarsG> present+ LarsG
13:02:52 <aharth> aharth has joined #sdw
13:03:03 <aharth> present+ aharth
13:04:04 <AZ> present+ AZ
13:04:18 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdw
13:04:42 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
13:04:52 <kerry> present+ josh
13:04:54 <SimonCox> present+ SimonCox
13:05:32 <Linda> Kerry: starts the meeting
13:05:42 <Linda> Topic: approving last week's minutes
13:06:02 <kerry> http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-sdw-minutes.html
13:06:11 <Linda> +0 (was absent)
13:06:12 <AndreaPerego> +1
13:06:13 <eparsons> +1
13:06:16 <MattPerry> +1
13:06:18 <kerry> +1
13:06:20 <frans> +1
13:06:25 <Alejandro_Llaves> +1
13:06:33 <Linda> RESOLVED: minutes approved
13:06:41 <Linda> Topic: patent call
13:06:43 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
13:07:08 <Linda> Kerry: no reactions so moving on to main business
13:07:22 <Linda> Topic: next meeting
13:07:36 <Linda> Kerry: will be different: starts one hour early and runs for 2 hours.
13:08:05 <Linda> ... many people will be present in Nottingham, others remotely. Webex expected to work.
13:08:10 <AZ> s/early/earlier/
13:08:21 <Linda> ... occasion is the OGC TC meeting. There are likely to be observers.
13:09:01 <Linda> ... the extra hour will be spent on requirements around Time deliverable & do presentations on that. There are a few lined up.
13:09:34 <Linda> ... the page about technical talks on the wiki has a list.
13:09:51 <frans> Tech talks: http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Technology_Talks
13:11:49 <Linda> LarsG: mentions xxx (name not heard) who is willing to do a talk on Time.
13:12:00 <Linda> Kerry: any questions?
13:12:35 <Linda> ... that will be about 1 hour, and the rest will be about the Best Practice.
13:12:40 <AndreaPerego> s/xxx (name not heard)/Ray Denenberg/
13:13:04 <Linda> thx Andrea
13:13:34 <Linda> Kerry: we need Jeremy for the next topic but he's not here.
13:13:45 <Linda> Ed: I can cover it if he doesn't arrive.
13:13:46 <kerry> kerry has changed the topic to: cross reference
13:14:13 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidated_Narratives
13:14:23 <kerry> topic: cross reference
13:15:17 <Linda> Kerry: Jeremy's idea was that we look through the narratives he made based on the use cases; and to cross-reference those themes with the DWBP WG and the W3C Web architecture.
13:16:01 <Linda> ... people have suggested other things they should be checked against, as well. I did one last week, Bill did the 'other stuff' one.
13:16:24 <Linda> ... not a lot of relevance to what we do here.
13:17:34 <Linda> ... a particular thing is provenance, something else to think about is license information.
13:18:57 <Linda> ... the requirements of ssn also overlap with DWBP regarding downloading, user feedback
13:19:43 <Linda> Topic: best practice document structure and design patterns.
13:19:56 <Linda> ed: I had a conversation with Jeremy about this.
13:20:03 <Linda> ... next step is to make the doc more concrete.
13:20:19 <Linda> ... over the next few weeks Jeremy wants to put the document skeleton structure together.
13:20:44 <Linda> ... by the face to face meeting
13:21:05 <Linda> ... looked at how a best practice can best be documented
13:21:35 <Linda> ... for web developers who don't necessarily have a spatial data background
13:22:13 <Linda> ... not only online document but could also do e.g. video or something else.
13:22:33 <Linda> ... Next week, everyone is asked to bring examples to the meeting
13:23:24 <Linda> ... is this clear?
13:23:24 <kerry> action: ed to bring example of bluetooth to next meeting
13:23:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Bring example of bluetooth to next meeting [on Ed Parsons - due 2015-09-16].
13:23:27 <frans> q+
13:23:56 <Linda> Frans: good idea, but how do we collect those examples?
13:24:22 <kerry> action: ed to create appropriate wiki page
13:24:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Create appropriate wiki page [on Ed Parsons - due 2015-09-16].
13:24:27 <Linda> ed: there's a topic on the agenda next week to do the collecting. We could make a wiki page in advance where you can put links to examples. We hadn't thought about that bit.
13:24:58 <kerry> action: frans to add examples to wiki
13:24:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Add examples to wiki [on Frans Knibbe - due 2015-09-16].
13:24:59 <Linda> frans: makes sense. Won't be there in person but can perhaps add some examples.
13:25:32 <Linda> eparsons: add a bit of description - how is multimedia/hypermedia used etc
13:25:45 <Linda> frans: isn't use of multimedia restricted?
13:26:25 <Linda> eparsons: don't know but we will find out. It's not a normative document.
13:26:40 <kerry> q+
13:26:52 <Linda> Kerry: is there anyone else who wants to contribute before next week?
13:27:47 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdw
13:27:47 <Linda> eparsons: probably we need time to think. Could be anything, e.g. the instructions for your washing machine.
13:28:12 <kerry> ack frans
13:28:19 <kerry> ack
13:28:21 <frans> q+
13:30:20 <Linda> Kerry: The SDW BP document is developing, but I'm a bit dissatified with it. It kind of says stuff that is already commonplace and very few implementation details.
13:31:02 <kerry> q?
13:31:15 <Linda> eparsons: agrees, it should not be a high level document, but should be quite practical.
13:31:28 <joshlieberman> The "best practice" for OGC BP documents is really to specify "use this standard in this way"
13:31:33 <Linda> kerry: people could also bring along BP documents that they don't like, as an example.
13:31:48 <Linda> eparsons: any people here with other ideas?
13:31:49 <kerry> ack kerry
13:31:52 <joshlieberman> The great thing about standards... is so many to choose from
13:31:59 <kerry> ack frans
13:32:01 <joshlieberman> q+
13:32:39 <Linda> frans: the BP document could identify gaps, but are we supposed to do anything with these gaps? Or do we just notice them but not more?
13:32:53 <Linda> ... example: the geo-DCAT-AP profile
13:33:22 <AndreaPerego> q+
13:33:26 <Linda> ... identifies gaps that need filling, this group could help do that
13:34:00 <kerry> ack josh
13:34:03 <Linda> eparsons: if we have time and it fits the charter, we could fix them, but if we want the BP to be a cookbook, we want to point to stuff that already works.
13:34:35 <kerry> +1 to josh's remark
13:34:47 <Linda> joshlieberman: two remarks. 1 in the OGC a best practice is not independent from standards, but helps solve confusion around using standards.
13:35:19 <Linda> ... among these standards, use this one for this, use these parts of the standard, etc
13:36:11 <Linda> ... in my opinion let's not include missing things in the BP
13:36:34 <kerry> ack andrea
13:37:27 <Linda> AndreaPerego: if the BP just points to existing standards; what do we do if a solution is not found for a requirement?
13:37:28 <joshlieberman> So, three BP sections: 1) existing best practices with existing standards; 2) new practices with existing standards; 3) gaps in existing standards that block useful practices.
13:38:02 <joshlieberman> for 3) -- recommendations but not solutions for new standards
13:38:20 <kerry> q?
13:39:20 <Linda> eparsons: agrees with Josh: recognize the areas that need work/solutions in a separate section of the document.
13:40:09 <frans> I think we should take steps to fill gaps. That does not mean we should develop new standards, but we could at least recommend development of new standards.
13:40:54 <joshlieberman> in regards to 2), the OGC IP addresses those potential practices where organized use by multiple parties is needed to test whether they could be "best"
13:41:03 <Linda> AndreaPerego: if we only recommend what's already there, it is only of limited use, projects need solutions to the gaps as well.
13:41:42 <frans> I agree with Andrea. Completeness of best practices is important.
13:42:04 <Linda> eparsons: but in the case of e.g. coordinate systems, there are solutions; it will take discussion to choose, but we can recommend a best practice for that.
13:42:17 <joshlieberman> SDWWG recommendations in 2) can serve a similar purpose of encouraging practices to be tried out.
13:42:22 <Linda> ... where there just isn't the knowledge and understanding, there we can't have a solution.
13:42:54 <kerry> q?
13:43:11 <Linda> AndreaPerego: still I see a number of gaps without solution and am concerned about not providing solutions for those.
13:44:08 <Linda> eparsons: valid point; there are gaps, but I think probably we have most of the building blocks. So less gaps than you fear.
13:44:54 <Linda> kerry: keep telling us so that we don't miss important things.
13:45:07 <kerry> q?
13:45:55 <frans> q+
13:45:59 <Linda> eparsons: we must keep reflecting on the point Andrea was making from the perspective of different user communities.
13:46:05 <kerry> action: andrea to ensure we are not missing entirely important user requirements
13:46:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Ensure we are not missing entirely important user requirements [on Andrea Perego - due 2015-09-16].
13:46:25 <kerry> q?
13:47:08 <chaals> chaals has joined #sdw
13:47:22 <Linda> frans: gaps can block efforts; for some best practices we have multiple standards and for others we have none. If the latter is the case this blocks your efforts. So should we prioritize finding and solving gaps?
13:47:32 <kerry> q?
13:47:39 <kerry> ack frans
13:48:03 <Linda> eparsons: disagree. Focus most on what we know works. If we concentrate on just the gaps we miss describing the practical steps that can be taken.
13:48:14 <SimonCox> Is it important to pick winners?
13:48:43 <Linda> eparsons: yes, it is important to pick winners.
13:49:10 <Linda> Kerry: please remember to provide examples next week.
13:49:15 <Linda> Topic: any other business
13:49:26 <Linda> Can anyone say someone about the OGC testbed?
13:49:36 <joshlieberman> q+
13:50:17 <kerry> ack josh
13:50:20 <Linda> frans: should we review the engineering reports for information relevant to the best practice and narratives and if so, how do we go about it?
13:50:57 <Linda> joshlieberman: there is joint membership, so everyone in this group is allowed access to these documents before they're public.
13:51:16 <Linda> ... or we can contact the editors and ask them if there is BP material in their documents
13:51:46 <Linda> kerry: is it realistic to want to go through these documents and cross-reference like we did with the DWBP and Web architecture?
13:52:18 <kerry> action: josh to ask tesbed email list to proide pointers to content we should knpow
13:52:18 <trackbot> Error finding 'josh'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
13:52:19 <Linda> joshlieberman: these are a lot more documents. Perhaps better to ask the participants to point out what is relevant. Volunteers to do so.
13:52:48 <Linda> kerry: and we can allocate a few people to follow up on those pointers.
13:53:06 <Linda> ... any other business?
13:53:14 <Linda> ... no response, might close early.
13:53:24 <AndreaPerego> action: lieberman to ask tesbed email list to proide pointers to content we should knpow
13:53:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Ask tesbed email list to proide pointers to content we should knpow [on Joshua Lieberman - due 2015-09-16].
13:53:37 <Linda> ... please let us know if you'll attend TPAC
13:54:12 <Linda> ... getting close to decision and travel arrangement time. Record on the wiki if you'll attend. There will also be telecon.
13:54:23 <AndreaPerego> I won't be at TPAC
13:54:28 <Linda> ... a good few people have already done so, thank you for that.
13:54:35 <Linda> ... any other business?
13:54:47 <SimonCox> Me neither.
13:54:49 <eparsons> Thanks Linda !!!
13:54:52 <AndreaPerego> Thanks and bye!
13:54:52 <Alejandro_Llaves> thanks, bye!
13:54:55 <eparsons> bye
13:54:56 <Linda> kerry: closes meeting - don't forget, an hour earlier next week.
13:54:59 <LarsG> Thanks, bye
13:55:06 <Linda> bye!
13:55:13 <AZ> bye
13:55:15 <kerry> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:55:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-sdw-minutes.html kerry
13:55:15 <frans> doeg
13:55:30 <eparsons> bye
13:59:02 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
14:11:54 <chaals> chaals has joined #sdw
14:15:12 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
15:44:06 <chaals> chaals has joined #sdw
16:05:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sdw