13:50:30 RRSAgent has joined #wpay 13:50:30 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-wpay-irc 13:50:33 rrsagent, make logs public 13:52:00 Meeting: Web Payments IG Work Meeting 13:52:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:52:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-wpay-minutes.html manu 13:54:40 yrilV has joined #wpay 13:55:46 CyrilV has joined #wpay 13:56:02 +present CyrilV 13:58:51 s/+present/present+/ 14:00:18 present+ MattC 14:01:54 * I am connected but I hear nobody 14:02:23 present+ Ian 14:04:33 Present+ Manu 14:04:55 present+ Matt 14:04:58 present+ Manu 14:05:00 regrets+ Pat 14:06:54 shepazu has joined #wpay 14:07:13 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Sep/0007.html 14:07:36 scribe: manu 14:07:39 topic: next steps ecommerce 14:07:44 DavidE invitation -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Sep/0012.html 14:07:45 Ian: David isn't here to talk about next steps for ecommerce, we'll hold off on that. 14:08:09 Ian: He is scheduling a call and I have the feeling that he may not have been ready to talk about a plan on today's call. 14:08:13 q+ to say there is a rough plan. 14:08:22 ack manu 14:08:22 manu, you wanted to say there is a rough plan. 14:08:27 Manu: There is indeed a rough plan 14:08:50 ...in his email he raised some interesting points 14:09:25 ...I think from Conexxus conversations I am feeling good about direction of this stakeholder group 14:09:49 ...meeting likely 9am ET on 4 Sep 14:09:56 (IJ regrets) 14:10:14 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities 14:10:28 Ian: Maybe Manu, you can help ensure that the ecommerce stuff ends up on that wiki. 14:10:39 Present+ AdrianHB 14:10:45 Ian: There is a link to the minutes for the telcos - haven't summarized yet, should reach out to Natasha. 14:11:25 topic: Strategic agenda for TPAC 14:11:54 Ian: We now have 6-7 people that have volunteered to plan content for the face-to-face - still looking for more people - still some more topics - like capabilities. 14:12:05 q+ to say that he has a capabilities update! 14:12:28 Ian: I'd like to create a strategic agenda - potential topics so that we have a narrative to follow at F2F. 14:12:32 q- 14:13:03 Ian: If we look at our charter... 14:13:04 http://www.w3.org/2014/04/payments/webpayments_charter.html 14:13:31 Ian: It's a good place to ground ourselves in what we're trying to do - haven't done this exercise yet - one way to think about the agenda is - existentially - what is it that we need to be doing. 14:14:21 Ian: We're supposed to have a vision for web payments, greater update, coming back to the job of the IG - reaching out to people - communicating - getting participation. 14:14:47 Ian: If we can frame the meeting that way - it may help us make sense of the topcis - make sure we have a sense of direction - same page - same view of where things are headed by end of TPAC 2015. 14:14:56 manu: +1 - sounds like a good plan. 14:15:09 q+ to raise the "support WG w/ deployment". 14:15:14 ack manu 14:15:14 manu, you wanted to raise the "support WG w/ deployment". 14:15:15 +1 14:15:30 Manu: we had discussed deployment at some point 14:15:38 ...what success will look like for V1 14:15:48 ...but we don't have anything on the agenda yet on IG support of deployment 14:16:03 ..the WG will be busy...the WG may not have time to "go get orgs to implement" 14:16:10 ...we do need commitments from orgs re: pilots, etc. 14:16:23 ...going back to what the IG should be doing, I think "ensuring success of phase 1" 14:17:30 Ian: One quick comment I have - recast your comment - I think we want implementers at the table - we shouldn't be talking to implementers because they should already be at the table. Don't know how far our role goes - WG should deal w/ it's test suite needs - opening the meeting w/ "what are the IGs goals" - with a proposal to start - frame the meeting w/ that 14:17:55 Ian: one observation - we created a bunch of task forces - and they're not really relevant anymore (or they are inactive) - we should reset them to align w/ a fresh set of goals. 14:18:15 Ian: We should end w/ a plan - opening the meeting w/ shared set of goals and stick to those might help a lot. 14:18:23 q? 14:18:25 Ian: The goal of ensuring phase 1 sounds like one of those goals. 14:18:48 Ian: I haven't stepped up to do a session yet - rather, have other people find their passion and speak to it. 14:19:08 Manu: I'm not seeing movement on hardware security. 14:19:12 ...would be good to get an update4 14:19:30 ACTION: Ian to talk with W3C staff about getting a security update at the FTF meeting 14:19:30 Created ACTION-145 - Talk with w3c staff about getting a security update at the ftf meeting [on Ian Jacobs - due 2015-09-10]. 14:19:34 +1 on hw security (it came up from a bank I spoke with yesterday) 14:19:45 ... with Ian 14:21:35 Manu: I think ISO20022 discussion on the mailing list is really interesting and appreciated Adrian's response. I think there's a discussion to be had there. 14:23:46 Manu: I think ISO work will have an impact on vocabulary work of the WPWG in v 1.0 14:23:49 +1 14:24:32 (It could, but it should definitely be considered even if it doesn't ultimately) 14:24:39 Ian: Maybe we should have a discussion on how ISO20022 impacts phase 1 at the F2F - having someone that read the charter and is involved in the work is good. 14:25:07 Ian: I will follow up with Kris / Vincent about TPAC 14:26:43 Manu: It would be good to align w/ ISO20022 where we can - and I think that there are a number of places we could and should align (personal opinion). 14:27:01 +1 that having anyone with ISO20022 knowledge (esp SWIFT who maintain it) would be hugely valuable as the vocab SHOULD align with existing standards 14:27:10 topic: Capabilities 14:27:40 Ian: This is an important deliverable - 14:27:44 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-ig/latest/capabilities/index.html#identity-and-credentials-1 14:28:09 Manu: I have updated the identity and credentials section 14:28:20 ...it also helped me see how to write the document 14:29:04 ...I think the exercise we went through (Ian notes: Manu primarily), 14:29:14 ...it's really important to: 14:29:16 a) introduce the topic 14:29:19 b) State the goals 14:29:25 c) State the capabilities we believe necessary to achieve the goals 14:29:33 ...I think that's a helpful organization of the information 14:29:51 ...I think we should remove "key concepts" ... I think those are actually the goals 14:30:17 ...also, I made sure that the capabilities section for identity and credentials has entries for each item 14:30:40 ...I feel that if we follow that pattern for most of the sections, then it feels like a good way to introduce our thinking to WG and other parties 14:30:43 q? 14:31:12 Ian: I'll have a look - your characterization of introducing the topic, stating goals, then listing capabilities sounds good. 14:31:44 Ian: In some cases, we may find that we want to list, tentatively, the things we think will help us reach the goal - even if it isn't a detailed gap analysis, there is still material there to show awareness of the ecosystem. 14:32:24 Ian: The blog post that you did had another layer - here's what I think we need - look at existing technologies - at the end we can determine if there are gaps. You did a form of gap analysis, I don't think the document should do a gap analysis. 14:32:29 q+ to follow up on Ian's comment. 14:33:00 Ian: Basically, fodder for a gap analysis... it helps people understand, at a technical level, what we're talking about. or it demonstrates that we know what we're talking about. 14:33:12 ack manu 14:33:12 manu, you wanted to follow up on Ian's comment. 14:33:13 Ian: it might be an interesting exercise to point to related work (I say that in the abstract) 14:33:19 Manu: +1 14:33:31 Manu: We shouldn't ourselves do the gap analysis here (Ian agrees). 14:33:43 ..but pointers to "related specs" is useful 14:34:07 Minor comments 14:34:18 s/suggested deliverabes/candidate deliverables/ 14:34:39 Ian: yes, agreed that "Related Specifications" is important. 14:34:45 d/responsible WGs or standards bodies 14:34:53 Ian: I would delete the "responsible parties" 14:35:05 Ian: I would change "Suggested Deliverables" to "Candidate Deliverables" or something less strong. 14:35:38 Ian: I don't think "Responsible WGs" belong here. 14:36:02 Ian: I don't care about "who" in this document - I care about "what" 14:36:20 Ian: It feels as if it's going too far to say "here are the concrete groups that will work on this" 14:37:29 Manu: It wasn't meant as a "concrete groups that will work on this" - it was meant as a "we're thinking about these groups being relevant" 14:37:49 Ian: I think we can keep related specifications (with groups), and that expresses that 14:38:04 Ian: So, the "Responsible WGs" is redundant w/ info above, or it's premature. 14:38:10 Manu: Ok, will change it. 14:38:22 q? 14:38:41 Ian: I have to get Pat on the phone and see how we're going to get this document done before TPAC. 14:38:50 yaso has joined #wpay 14:39:44 Topic: Update on stakeholder meetings 14:40:13 Manu: Do we have enough time? 14:40:39 Ian: Quick summary - banks have met once, and are meeting again Tuesday the 8th - don't know if the next meeting is planned. 14:40:59 Ian: The ecommerce one is having a meeting as early as tomorrow - assuming they'll need to meet multiple times... will continue to work w/ David on that. 14:41:24 Ian: I'm chatting w/ Alibaba folks and Amy Zirkle - proposed a time, but am waiting to hear from Nick to see if he's available - 9am on 11th of September. 14:42:13 Ian: That's when we'll dig in to the PSP stuff a bit more - the ones that have momentum - they'll be fine - everyone needs to be on it. Not nervous about them getting done by Oct. 14:42:31 Ian: We may want to have a template - that's the current status. 14:42:42 q? 14:45:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-wpay-minutes.html Ian 14:46:25 Topic: E-commerce Plans 14:46:50 dezell: I saw some of the minutes - I think Ian covered some of the topic - for ecommerce, there are several facets that I'm covering - looking for your feedback. 14:47:21 dezell: I have setup a stakeholders meeting doodle poll - the people that have registered so far - we don't have that many of the merchant folks, so I'm leaving that out there during the afternoon to decide when people can come. 14:47:27 dbaron has joined #wpay 14:47:32 dezell: That meeting is sort of open ended. 14:48:08 dezell: We've bound commerce to merchant and retailers - that's sensible - mainly because, most of mobile apps are driven by ecommerce topic - those applications, if anyone is willing to have one developed, they want a loyalty program. 14:48:31 dezell: That may be true in general - merchants are driving these programs - you can see what I've put on there - there's a matrix of concerns - some programs are driven by various entities. 14:48:56 dezell: That's the basis of it - trying to get this meeting setup - probably be more than one - also, prepare for a presentation at the W3C Digital Marketing workshop in Tampa. 14:49:07 dezell: I'm going there wearing both NACS and Web Payments hats. 14:49:26 dezell: I personally believe there is a lot of digital marketing, while it may not belong in WPIG, we have a strong interest. 14:50:03 dezell: That's one of the things I'm using to drive this - meeting I'm setting up - trying to prepare for the workshop. I've had a long conversation w/ folks in NACS - various workshop presentations - Gray Taylor gave one at the NACS show - all applicable. 14:50:19 dezell: I have not been able to contact Joerg - he's on vacation until Sept. 18th - out of pocket for now. 14:51:04 dezell: Are we conflating two different topics - have merchants and retailers stakeholders - on the other, I have what we're presenting at face-to-face - ecommerce aspects of payments. In my mind, those two things are very close together. Trying to make sure stakeholder meetings aren't self-selecting. 14:51:08 q+ to provide feedback. 14:51:12 ack manu 14:51:12 manu, you wanted to provide feedback. 14:51:25 Manu: +1 to the approach 14:51:34 ...I'm wondering why there is not as much merchant participation as we'd like 14:51:45 q+ to talk about merchants behind their backs. 14:52:06 Manu: Can we reach into NACS community? 14:52:17 (BIG +1 to having questions for NACS members to answer) 14:53:16 ack de 14:53:16 dezell, you wanted to talk about merchants behind their backs. 14:53:18 dezell: We had a discussion about this at the NACS strategy conference - I'll have slides from Jenny Bullard (Flash Foods) - so will be able to share that. I've also may have some input from Coca Cola - if they come to the Digital Marketing workshop, we should be able to pick their brain. 14:53:42 dezell: So, we have some people that do digital marketing, but not web technology - I have to follow up w/ Jeff Tatner at Coca Cola on digital marketing. 14:54:46 Ian: I valued the guest participation at our previous meeting - newly arrived folks - I think we should use our next face-to-face as an opportunity to introduce new people - if there are people willing to go to Japan - we should see if we're willing to find someone interested in participating in the work. 14:55:06 dezell: These folks have the budget, but not the expertise in the technology areas. 14:55:09 ack dezell 14:55:50 dezell: merchants are very much reactionary - it's just the nature of the industry - but it seems to be a global phenomenon in merchants and retailers. 14:56:49 Manu: When will you call the meeting? 14:56:58 dezell: Mid-afternoon today, most likely. 14:57:58 Ian: That may not be enough notice. 14:58:08 dezell: I'll try to do it at noon, then. 14:58:19 s/do it at/send the meeting invite out/ 14:59:09 rrsagent, make minutes 14:59:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-wpay-minutes.html Ian 14:59:15 rrsagent, set logs member 14:59:59 Present+ DavidE 15:00:04 Chair: Ian 15:00:17 rrsagent, make logs public 15:00:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:00:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:04:20 s/* I am connected but I hear nobody// 16:57:31 shepazu has joined #wpay 17:03:14 Zakim has left #wpay 17:05:41 shepazu has joined #wpay 17:11:37 shepazu has joined #wpay 17:13:10 yaso has joined #wpay 17:30:02 Karen has joined #wpay 17:34:11 shepazu has joined #wpay 18:45:40 Karen_ has joined #wpay 19:33:08 shepazu has joined #wpay 19:59:00 shepazu has joined #wpay 20:16:42 dbaron has joined #wpay 21:46:54 Karen has joined #wpay