IRC log of dpub-aria on 2015-09-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:55:30 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-irc

12:58:51 [tzviya]

zakim, this will be DPUB-ARIA

12:58:51 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tzviya

12:59:46 [tzviya]

agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2015Sep/0000.html

13:01:41 [janina]

present+ janina

13:02:11 [mgylling]

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13:02:39 [tzviya]

present+ Tzviya

13:02:43 [mgylling]

Agenda:

13:02:43 [mgylling]

* DPUB roles in ARIA Core - yes or no, prefix or no

13:02:44 [mgylling]

* Link roles: in ARIA or @rel registry?

13:02:45 [mgylling]

* update on timeline for additional dpub roles to be added to draft

13:02:46 [mgylling]

* update on DPUB AAM progress

13:02:53 [mgylling]

Present+ Markus

13:03:30 [tzviya]

present+ Ivan

13:03:37 [mgylling]

scribenick: mgylling

13:03:57 [tzviya]

zakim, this will be DPUB ARIA

13:03:57 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tzviya

13:05:32 [ShaneM_]

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13:06:28 [ivan_]

zakim, this is dpub-aria https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mf2cde14c5140de2a3a9a333212ab1cc9 code 641 181 126

13:06:28 [Zakim]

got it, ivan_

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13:06:33 [ivan_]

zakim, code?

13:06:33 [Zakim]

I have been told this is dpub-aria https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mf2cde14c5140de2a3a9a333212ab1cc9 code 641 181 126

13:06:42 [mgylling]

topic: DPUB roles in ARIA Core

13:07:48 [tzviya]

chair: markus

13:08:16 [tzviya]

chair: tzviya

13:08:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]

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13:08:47 [mgylling]

tzviya: whether we should shift some of the DPUB roles into aria core, and whether to use the prefix

13:11:03 [tzviya]

markus: this is a double-edged sword. adding to core would increase uptake, but splitting the vocab could lead to confusion

13:11:21 [mgylling]

markus: in the worst case, we would have properties in DPUB, ARIA, and @rel registry

13:11:51 [mgylling]

tzviya: think this will come again up as other modules are added

13:12:40 [mgylling]

… on the one hand you could say that people are already looking at ARIA for document structure, if we have glossary as part of core, and glossary-reference as part of DPUB, its kind of dissonant

13:13:26 [mgylling]

ivan: janina, markus raised the issue that if a value goes into core, if it namespaceless then it has more chances to be understood by AT… is that really the case? Could AT not accept properties that keep dpub-?

13:14:11 [mgylling]

janina: it could work both ways, AT is already picking up ARIA roles, OTOH DPUB space is also an attractive space, seems a rather easy thing to add

13:15:10 [mgylling]

ivan: is it possible to say that we have the DPUB hyphenspace module, and somehow in the core ARIA spec there is a reference to DPUB properties, that we consider part of core, but defined in DPUB spec?

13:15:26 [mgylling]

janina: probably the easiest one to move through to TR

13:15:54 [mgylling]

ivan: the authors of an ebook would just know dpub- and nothing else, from that perspective we are fine

13:16:41 [mgylling]

rich: which ones are we talking about?

13:17:06 [mgylling]

matt: chapter and one or two others

13:17:32 [mgylling]

ivan: we have the notion of chapter, aria value is dpub-chapter once and for all, but its still part of the core, and defined normatively in dpub spec

13:18:19 [tzviya]

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/51 identifies the roles that Core is interested in harvesting

13:18:52 [mgylling]

s/namespaceless/hyphenspaceless/

13:19:17 [mgylling]

ivan: pushing all dpub roles in the first seems to be too much

13:19:46 [mgylling]

janina: rich is that true?

13:19:52 [mgylling]

rich: we need to give them runway

13:20:31 [mgylling]

… MS said we want to be able to support the ARIA spec, later we can support the publishing module

13:21:45 [mgylling]

rich: getting some roles into core wouldnt buy you much

13:22:59 [mgylling]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: migrate nothing to ARIA core at this point

13:23:48 [mgylling]

janina: agrees, keep it simple

13:25:18 [mgylling]

matt: isnt in education issue? splitting would make life harder for publishers, we should make people aware that aria is expanding using modules

13:25:35 [mgylling]

RESOLVED: migrate nothing to ARIA core at this point

13:25:50 [mgylling]

topic: link roles

13:26:23 [mgylling]

matt: noteref, glossref, biblioref, etc

13:27:39 [mgylling]

markus: has link roles been discussed in ARIA before?

13:27:53 [mgylling]

rich: no, but discussions is ongoing in cognitive @@@

13:28:20 [mgylling]

s/cognitive/the cognitive taskforce/

13:28:45 [tzviya]

http://microformats.org/wiki/rel

13:30:04 [mgylling]

tzviya: if there was rel=description, then people would be a lot more comfortable using rel for descriptions

13:31:30 [mgylling]

janina: is this only for HTML or also for SVG?

13:31:46 [mgylling]

… think that would be the basis for supporting ARIA doing the same thing that rel does

13:32:00 [mgylling]

… otherwise we have to answer why not use rel

13:33:19 [mgylling]

rich: SVG does not have rel

13:33:22 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/attindex.html

13:34:00 [mgylling]

janina: we know we want to do this to SVG, and maybe other markup languages as well, there’s the argument for putting this into ARIA

13:34:37 [mgylling]

rich: I dont think we’ll get this in SVG2

13:36:05 [mgylling]

ivan: the only additional problem is that rel is also used in other settings in RDFa

13:36:15 [mgylling]

markus: how does that impact us?

13:36:33 [mgylling]

ivan: there may be default namespaceless properties, so there may be a low probability of clashes

13:38:09 [mgylling]

RESOLVED: keep link roles in aria draft for now, await further input from the community

13:38:34 [mgylling]

rich: AT doesnt currently make use of @rel

13:38:52 [mgylling]

topic: additional dpub roles

13:39:50 [mgylling]

markus: for me, tzviya matt and sanders to work on

13:40:23 [mgylling]

tzviya: once we decide which roles to add it wont take long, but we need time to discuss things

13:45:32 [tzviya]

tzviya: we'll aim to finish additional DPUB roles by latest mid-Oct

13:45:50 [tzviya]

topic: update on DPUB AAM

13:46:21 [tzviya]

rich: working on ARIA 1.1 and SVG, DPUB AAM is on the list

13:47:27 [tzviya]

no meeting next week (10 Septemeber)

13:48:18 [tzviya]

review period oF FPWD is coming to a close, we will close out the issues, all of which predate publication

13:48:24 [tzviya]

rrsagent, make logs public

13:48:28 [tzviya]

rrsagent, make minutes

13:48:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-minutes.html tzviya

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