13:32:41 RRSAgent has joined #wpay 13:32:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-wpay-irc 13:32:45 Zakim has joined #wpay 13:32:50 schuki has joined #wpay 13:33:49 scribe: Ian 13:34:17 topic: What Telcos need 13:34:59 Chair: Natasha 13:35:04 topic: Intro 13:35:20 Natasha: I'm AC rep of GSMA, and co-Chair of web and mobile IG 13:35:25 ...I hang out with payments folks 13:35:45 ...we are missing some people today so we may have to move to email as well 13:35:55 ...I speak quickly sorry! 13:35:59 ...feel free to tell me to slow down 13:36:12 topic: Background 13:36:13 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities 13:36:38 ...goal is to gather stakeholder wishes, needs for standards 13:36:44 ...to help IG determine next priorities 13:36:58 ...so we're going to collect data across stakeholders and provide overview at FTF meeting 13:37:39 ...I chatted with Ian late last week 13:37:47 ...we had a discussion around the payments work happening within GSMA 13:38:03 ...and the mobile operators that are working within gSMA 13:38:03 ...we call this the digital commerce project 13:38:10 ...talked about some work that might fit in neatly here. 13:38:27 ...so here are some user stories and POSSIBLE ideas for standardization; but those are for discussion 13:38:49 ...if you want to support these things please say "Yes, this is important" and also feel free to offer additional ideas outside of my comments 13:38:55 topic: User Stores 13:38:59 https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/blob/master/existingpaymentsolutions.md 13:38:59 s/Stores/Stories 13:39:22 http://www.w3.org/TR/web-payments-use-cases/ 13:39:24 -> GSMA Digital commerce http://www.gsma.com/digitalcommerce/ 13:39:55 topic: Remote payments 13:40:17 ...frustration needing to pay (e.g., for tickets) on a mobile phone 13:40:23 ...diabolic experience personally 13:40:52 ...we recognize this is good for consumers to fix this, but there are also strong business cases for merchants that want to increase conversion rates, and also for merchant acquirers 13:41:09 ...and for mobile operators to offer payment solutions using existing infrastructure or software they have already 13:41:27 Ian: Better definition of remote payments? 13:41:34 Natasha: You're away from the merchant. 13:41:40 Natasha: Means you are not physically at a merchant store. 13:41:43 Ian: So, on the desktop, or on your mobile, etc. 13:42:05 Natasha: GSMA's focus for remote is "mobile" but for our purposes, it would include desktop as well 13:42:25 Ian: We've discussed "proximity" as well. 13:42:54 Natasha: One use case that may trigger regulatory questions - one click checkout 13:43:15 Ian: Regulatory concerns? 13:43:31 Natasha: I think that in some countries they need 2 confirmations 13:43:43 nicktr has joined #wpay 13:43:50 ...so in some countries you have to say "I want to buy" and then "Yes, I reiterate that I want to buy; I'm sure" 13:44:13 Vincent: On 1-click checkout you need to consider revocation of purchase within a particular period (e.g., 14 days in Belgium or france to cancel payment) 13:44:20 Natasha: Thanks for raising that! 13:44:40 dezell has joined #wpay 13:45:13 Ju has joined #wpay 13:45:33 presnet+ Ju 13:45:45 s/presnet/present/ 13:45:47 present+ Ian 13:45:51 Present+ Manu 13:45:55 present+ Adrian 13:45:55 Present+ Natasha 13:45:55 present+ Ju 13:46:09 Topic: mobile money code of conduct 13:46:23 natasha: We have a document ... might be of interest to the IG 13:46:41 -> http://www.gsma.com/mobilefordevelopment/programmes/mobile-money-for-the-unbanked/code-of-conduct 13:46:56 q+ to ask about ISO12812 and how much importance GSMA puts on that standard. 13:47:04 ack manu 13:47:04 manu, you wanted to ask about ISO12812 and how much importance GSMA puts on that standard. 13:47:20 Manu: Will you cover iso 12812 here? 13:47:33 Natasha: Was not planning to 13:47:49 Manu: Question for you offline - is GSMA looking at this 13:47:53 Natasha: I will find out 13:48:03 +1 - good question 13:48:13 Vincent: I'm part of that WG .. some of the topics you are looking at are covered in 12812....not yet completed 13:48:58 Ian: A follow-up on remote payments - great model - you talked about user experience about doing something - then you talked about business value for different stakeholders. 13:49:01 Present+ dezell 13:49:25 Ian: So, what I didn't hear clearly was the value proposition for mobile operators for remote payments. Anytime MNOs can sell connectivity, that's a good thing. 13:49:39 Natasha: Mobile operators will be diversifying 13:49:43 Ian: What's the value MNOs hope to provide/capture around payments 13:50:07 q+ to ask about different types of diversification - mobile wallets, payment services, merchant services, is there a prioritized list? 13:50:11 ...they will use their infrastructure / network and leverage customer relationships...and they have transactional data 13:51:17 ...so strengthening relationship with users 13:52:00 ...mobile operators also want to deliver services through existing relationships with merchant acquirers 13:52:18 ack manu 13:52:18 manu, you wanted to ask about different types of diversification - mobile wallets, payment services, merchant services, is there a prioritized list? 13:53:08 Manu: does GSMA keep a list of the types of diversification that interest MNOs? Is there a survey or list of priorities that MNOs are interested in? E.g., are they really interested in mobile wallets this year and not so much extending services to merchants? or really keen on mobile money, etc.? 13:53:20 ...I realize it's regional as well, but do you have data about the interests? 13:53:30 Natasha: So perhaps some overview about who this information is collected... 13:53:43 ...GSMA pulls consensus from industry to drive programs 13:53:58 ...I know it's not hard data, but these topics that I'm bringing up are thus representative IMO 13:54:09 ...I imagine that if data exists, it would be under NDA 13:54:14 ...I can investigate that 13:54:33 (Two actions for Natasha so far (1) Find out 12812 (2) find data about priorities.) 13:54:36 q? 13:54:51 topic: Wallet 13:55:20 Natasha: Lots of people want to enable....how to do so is the main question. Two things come up: 13:55:23 a) Tokenization 13:55:25 b) Identity 13:55:40 ...a lot of telcos have strong relations with customers so identity programs are becoming popular in this industry 13:55:53 ...in Japan we have things like KDDI"s ID and Wallet programs which are successful 13:55:59 ...I believe AT&T also has a solution for this 13:56:10 ...and mobile connect, the federated offering through GSMA operators 13:56:29 -> http://www.gsma.com/personaldata/mobile-connect Mobile Connect 13:56:38 ...this has sparked interest in easier log-in 13:56:59 ...identity stuff is related to existing standards from OpenID foundation, as well as challenge-based approaches for authentication 13:57:01 -> https://openid.net/wg/mobile/ 13:57:10 ....Visa and MasterCard have been doing work on tokenization for some time 13:57:19 [IJ: and EMVCO] 13:57:25 -> https://mobileconnect.io/ 13:57:35 ...so question is whether people here see need to bring identity/tokenization into W3C 13:58:16 Ian: I have an interoperability question - MNOs are using their existing approaches to identify people when they enroll for their accounts with operators. 13:58:26 Ian: The identifier, typically for those people, is a phone number. 13:58:32 Natasha: It's a PAN 13:59:14 Ian: Are there identifier interoperability needs that you perceive between the moment of enrollment (when you assign an identifier to someone), and at other points in a payment transaction. Is there a need for additional standardization for these identifiers. 13:59:29 Ian: My sense from the bank discussion - it seems like they have their internal scheme identifiers, and that's fine. 13:59:56 Ian: If you're paying merchants, and you want to extend the mobile money mechanism to pay merchants more easily from mobile money accounts - to what extent do people need to standardize identifiers. 14:00:56 Natasha: Problem is tracking 14:01:00 Natasha: This is a big data question - is it a good thing "yes"... is it possible "it's difficult". If we looked at trying to unify the identifier across industries - is standardization needed? Yes, most likely. There are big concerns around security/privacy - who is making payments, etc. 14:01:13 Natasha: There are privacy concerns. 14:01:17 scribe: manu 14:01:49 Natasha: A standardized identifier would be very good - but privacy problems abound - we need to look into that deeply. 14:02:28 Vincent: It's not only about having a unique identifier, not only about security, it's also about jurisdictional regulation. Different parties need to report in a standardized way, in the security domain, we have to report certain thigns to regulators. 14:02:51 Vincent: Where they force the industry to move to a specific standard - it comes from the regulatory side - we have to be careful about that. 14:02:55 Natasha: Yes, good point. 14:03:08 Vincent: For every payment, you have to make sure you're in compliance with AML, card network, etc. 14:03:27 Natasha: Once people bring up stuff like this, I don't want to say "no you can't do it" - it's just "very very very difficult". 14:03:48 Natasha: We use AC records in the UK to identify users - lots of places around the world still use them. 14:04:20 Topic: APIs 14:04:46 Natasha: API-like standardization is interesting - maybe around making an identity request - maybe around making a specific payment request (specifically, Javascript APIs - wallet and tokenization topics) 14:05:15 Natasha: That may be another interesting topic to look like - traditional style W3C standards - don't know if anyone else has had experience w/ APIs in their organization - this would be great if they were standardized. 14:05:36 Natasha: We've found a lot of difficulty around standardizing APIs in mobile community - WAP is one example. 14:05:53 s/WAP/WAC 14:05:56 Natasha: Those are the topics that I had - wanted to see if anyone had other topics - other things they wanted to add to that list? 14:06:18 Natasha: We're missing some people today - hopefully if we move those items to the list - we'll get some feedback from folks. 14:06:23 q+ to ask that the list is moved to wiki. 14:07:00 Natasha: These topics that I've collected - I could just wrap these up in a document and send them over. 14:07:20 Natasha: We could have a better conversation about that on the list - general idea on stakeholder requirements. 14:07:38 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities 14:07:49 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities#Mobile_Operators 14:08:06 +1 to editing into the Wiki! 14:08:13 Manu: If you could modify the wiki, that'd be great. 14:08:29 Natasha: Ok, will add those - Vincent - please look through the list as well. 14:08:31 ack manu 14:08:31 manu, you wanted to ask that the list is moved to wiki. 14:08:39 Natasha: Hopefully, some of the others will join in. 14:08:54 manu: +1 for putting the notes together! :) 14:09:18 dezell: I think this all sounds good - exactly on track - trying to make sure we have good discussion in Japan (W3C TPAC) 14:10:10 Discussion around TPAC and Japan and excitement. 14:11:00 Natasha: We'll get discussion going in GSMA Web WG plenary that I'll raise these topics. 14:11:14 dezell: Thanks for putting this together! :) 14:12:01 rrsagent, make minutes 14:12:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-wpay-minutes.html manu 14:16:33 rrsagent, make logs public 14:16:36 rrsagent, make logs member 14:16:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:16:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-wpay-minutes.html manu 14:17:04 Present+ Vincent 14:50:08 yaso has joined #wpay 16:06:16 ShaneM has joined #wpay 16:38:25 Zakim has left #wpay 17:45:33 yaso has joined #wpay 18:09:28 dbaron has joined #wpay 18:49:01 rrsagent, bye 18:49:01 I see no action items