See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: MichielBijl
Jon: main question regarding date pickers: currently the key combo to activate the date picker is alt+down arrow, is this consistent with combobox
Matt: I published the priority
plan for the code examples
... I like the wiki pages for the list
<jongund> Can I get a link to the table?
https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
MichielBijl: problem is not everyone can edit
jamesn: keep it there, add agenda item each week
Jemma: I like that
MichielBijl: no problem with that
Matt: how far are we down the list
jamesn: I think we are around number 17
Matt: not sure we did menu/menu bar
jamesn: we need to create a hide/show pattern for accordion
<jongund> http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/37/
jamesn: keyboard support for accordions are impractical, Bryan also had some comments
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28917
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26254
<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28916
Matt: do you want me to add a new item to the list for hide/show?
jamesn: yes please
Matt: I'll do that right now
jongund: we have quite a few landmark rules. With HTML5 people are creating landmarks without knowing it. So some guidance would be good.
Matt: we need someone to write an initial draft text
jongund: I could do that
... what would be the best way to draft it?
Matt: create it in your repo, and make a pull request
MichielBijl: isn't hide/show a
dependency for tabpanel?
... they are close in functionality
jamesn: they are, but we are going introduce a new version that isn't
Matt: so accordion is at a stage that we don't need another discussion before you can work on it?
jamesn: well, hide/show is essentially a new pattern
Matt: I noticed we have separate
patterns for grid and sortable grid
... Bryan you had some concerns about grid
... wizard, draganddrop, richtext, and mediaplayer those are
all discussion we will save for the end
jongund: I have a student who is
going to help with examples
... and Jemma is going to help with updating the examples
... we will develop in Django, but will contribute to the aria
repo
jamesn: I don't see combobox having any open bugs
MichielBijl: is it reviewed?
jamesn: don't remember
MichielBijl: not on the status page
jamesn: no bugs either, so probably not
Matt: lot of similarities between
combobox and autocomplete
... do we need two patterns?
MichielBijl: what separates them?
Matt: that's the thing
jamesn: combobox has a limited
things you can choose from, autocomplete has a possible
infinite set
... with autocomplete, you filter on what you've typed
... combobox shows you everything (close to what a
<select> does)
Matt: still not complete clear
jamesn: should think in UI terms UI designers think in
Jemma: I agree, we should
jamesn: need to fix the description, to better distinguish the two.
Bryan: issue I raised some time ago: what if you have a combobox as a menu? There is no way to distinguish between the two.
Matt: sounds like a overload of
combobox
... why do you need to override?
... popupmenu's are same as menu's
... there is no way to know (with ARIA) to know if the author
used context menu's
... I don't think people should mix haspopupmenu with
combobox
... ?? autocomplete in rich text area
jamesn: that is not what most authors see as an autocomplete pattern
Matt: how about Word?
<jamesn> https://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/selection/autocomplete.html
<Jemma> I would like to revoice Jame's point, unlimited options for autocomplete
jamesn: autocomplete should be short
Jemma: you can connect it to a database, have a lot of matches
Matt: I don't think the unlimited thing is the distinguishing factor
<Jemma> autocomplete also provide filtering function
MichielBijl: most autocomplete implementations don't exceed 5 to 10 matches
<Jemma> like the example of Michiel
jamesn: yeah, and most don't just
filter on the start, but within the whole name
... an autocomplete would be usable where the list of possible
matches would exceed the maximum options usable in a html
select
<Jemma> this is autocomplet concept I am familiar with. https://jqueryui.com/autocomplete/
Yep
Bryan: there is a difference between a combobox and a read-only combobox
Matt: under what conditions should you put the combobox role instead of the textbox role on that element
Bryan: are you talking about dynamically adding the role?
Matt: I don't know if it ever makes sense to dynamically add the role
Bryan: not sure combobox is supported on texbox
Matt: it is
jamesn: another difference is that autocomplete doesn't have a indication that you can expand it, where as a combobox usually does
Matt: I'm willing to try and
change the description for autocomplex
... I have another question, on the combobox you should use
aria-own to distinguish between the combobox and the
input
... in some cases this doesn't make sense
... in some cases the list does more than just display a
list
... so could aria-controls be used?
Bryan: I think so
Matt: I'll write an edit and
propose a solution
... screen readers need to know that that element is the list
associated with that input
Bryan: I tried with NVDA and it works
jamesn: in tables and grids the
reading order is kind of irrelevant anyway
... if you have a big big table, no one will listen to the
whole table
Matt: yeah I suppose
jamesn: if you have context table, you have to look at it in context
Matt: Bryan you're suggesting if
it's anything else than a list you can use aria-controls
... at what point do we recommend aria-controls versus
aria-owns
Bryan: I would go with aria-controls period
Matt: I with you there
... whether or not the combobox should support down arrow,
alt+down arrow, or both
MichielBijl: down arrow or both
jnurthen: I think it should be alt+arrow, that is the default in browsers
Matt: I think both are supported
Bryan: yes
... with alt+down arrow you open it without selecting
anything
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/autocomplete/accordion/ Succeeded: s/designs/UI designers/ Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Present: Bryan_Garaventa JaEun_Jemma_Ku James_Nurthen Jon_Gunderson Michiel_Bijl Matt_King Got date from IRC log name: 31 Aug 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/31-aria-apg-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]