14:00:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wpay
14:00:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/06-wpay-irc
14:00:20 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
14:00:29 <manu> Meeting: Web Payments Use Cases Task Force
14:01:42 <manu> Present+ Matt
14:01:45 <manu> Present+ Manu
14:02:13 <AdrianHB> Present+ AdrianHB
14:05:36 <padler> padler has joined #wpay
14:08:43 <padler> q+
14:09:25 <Ian> 10 seconds
14:10:14 <Ian> De Nederlandsche Bank just joined the IG! :)
14:11:52 <manu> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Aug/0032.html
14:12:00 <manu> scribenick: AdrianHB
14:12:01 <DJackson> DJackson has joined #wpay
14:12:16 <AdrianHB> agenda+ WPWG Charter
14:12:16 <DJackson> Present+ DJackson
14:12:41 <manu> Present+ AdrianHB
14:12:44 <AdrianHB> Agenda+ WPWG Charter blog post
14:12:54 <AdrianHB> Agenda+ TPAC f2f
14:12:59 <manu> Topic: Web Payments WG Charter to W3C Membership
14:13:10 <manu> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2015JulSep/0031.html
14:13:21 <AdrianHB> agenda+ WPIG -> WPWG knowledge transfer
14:14:04 <AdrianHB> Ian: WPWG charter has been put out for AC review
14:16:24 <AdrianHB> ian: I will be following up and ensuring AC are considering charter
14:16:41 <AdrianHB> ... Nick TR has been named as one co-chair
14:16:46 <AdrianHB> ... others TBD
14:16:53 <AdrianHB> manu: when does review end
14:16:57 <AdrianHB> ian: Sept 15
14:16:58 <Ian> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-new-work/2015Aug/0001.html
14:17:21 <AdrianHB> ... you may wish to notify people of this but also suggest people subscribe to the new-work mailing list
14:18:10 <AdrianHB> manu: I have a list of W3C member companies I like to contact if there is stuff I think they need to see when should I contact them
14:18:35 <AdrianHB> ian: there are auto-reminders sent to AC reps a week before the review ends
14:18:37 <AdrianHB> ...
14:18:39 <manu> q+ to say that I get so many of those that I ignore all of them.
14:19:22 <AdrianHB> ... secondly our plan, with Doug, is to reach out to individual IG member's AC rep and also those that were at the March workshop but aren't in the IG
14:19:40 <AdrianHB> ... we will also contact those that supported the IG charter
14:19:50 <manu> ack padler
14:19:55 <manu> ack manu
14:19:55 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to say that I get so many of those that I ignore all of them.
14:20:03 <AdrianHB> ... feel free to reach out but the staff will also be doing some of this and there are auto-reminders
14:20:27 <AdrianHB> manu: auto-reminders are a bit overwhelming
14:20:34 <AdrianHB> ... i find direct emails work better
14:20:53 <AdrianHB> ... but sounds like the staff have this under control
14:21:01 <manu> Ian: In terms of the member review
14:21:26 <manu> Ian: For the member review part, if you have a personal relationship w/ people - and you think they've missed it - by all means, ping them.
14:21:58 <AdrianHB> ian: it will be most helpful for members to do outreach at the launch
14:22:01 <manu> Ian: If you know if they're aware of it, don't need to ping them. I think more importantly - we need to reach out to rest of industry after launch. We'll have conversations on that launch, testimonials, develop some stories, etc.
14:22:29 <AdrianHB> manu: got it, thanks
14:22:39 <manu> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:22:39 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WPWG Charter blog post" taken up [from AdrianHB]
14:22:40 <AdrianHB> ... anythign further on this topic?
14:22:50 <manu> http://www.w3.org/blog/wpig/2015/08/05/web-payments-working-group-charter-in-review/
14:23:13 <AdrianHB> manu: Ian has put a blog post together. Do you want to discuss it at all Ian?
14:23:44 <AdrianHB> ian: It's already been posted, please have a look. Nothing that required IG input it's just facts and links to the IG's work so far (FAQ and charter)
14:23:56 <AdrianHB> manu: any q?
14:24:10 <AdrianHB> ian: please retweet my tweet about it
14:24:10 <Ian> https://twitter.com/w3c/status/628951869059108864
14:24:45 <Ian> https://twitter.com/w3c/status/628858287102930945
14:24:47 <AdrianHB> manu: anything else?
14:25:04 <AdrianHB> ian: nederlansde bank just joined the IG
14:25:43 <padler> q+
14:26:10 <AdrianHB> manu: ian, do you get a feeling that the bank will be heavily involved?
14:26:22 <AdrianHB> ian: not sure, I was not involved in the recruitment
14:26:51 <AdrianHB> manu: would be valuable to understand how they got to joining. Would help with other recrutiment efforts
14:27:20 <AdrianHB> pat: Fed will be publishing articles in Fedfocus (large c-suite finserv readership)
14:27:23 <AdrianHB> ...
14:27:33 <AdrianHB> ... intro article in early septemeber about IG
14:28:04 <AdrianHB> ... will try to leverage time at TF meeting or Chicago symposium to highlight the work
14:28:17 <AdrianHB> ... another article asking people to join the WG in october
14:28:33 <AdrianHB> ... followed up on note from Ian re getting more central banks
14:28:53 <AdrianHB> ... possible opportunity at SIBOS where we will be talking to central banks
14:29:10 <AdrianHB> ... agneda is liely fixed now but we could prepare something to share there for central banks specifically
14:29:54 <AdrianHB> ian: TPAC is coming up, we need to drum up momentum for that too
14:30:26 <AdrianHB> ... we are now trying to decide how we get the next charter done and that means looking at proposals for the next 6 months
14:31:23 <manu> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:31:23 <Zakim> agendum 3. "TPAC f2f" taken up [from AdrianHB]
14:31:36 <manu> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_Oct2015
14:32:17 <AdrianHB> ian: this feels like a discussion we shoudl have on Monday with the whole IG
14:32:32 <AdrianHB> manu: we can skip but if we want but we can use this time to prep
14:32:45 <AdrianHB> ian: june was great because we had a specific outcome in mind
14:32:50 <manu> q+ to raise concern about WPIG + WPWG to be "too much Web Payments" for TPAC.
14:32:54 <AdrianHB> ... to that end let's set some goals
14:33:02 <manu> ack padler
14:33:13 <AdrianHB> ... I think the IG goal is to establish what the next charter will be
14:33:31 <AdrianHB> ... don't think we will have a charter by the end of TPAC though
14:33:40 <AdrianHB> ... need proposals as input to that process
14:34:24 <AdrianHB> ... for the WG the gaol will be a knowlegde transfer, opportunity to meet other groups with which it has some liason reqs and start setting our work plan
14:34:54 <AdrianHB> ... as an example we have in teh charter that we will build test suites so let's use that opportunityt o get Phillipe's time for an hour
14:35:02 <manu> ack manu
14:35:02 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to raise concern about WPIG + WPWG to be "too much Web Payments" for TPAC.
14:35:11 <AdrianHB> ... notes welcome form members
14:35:24 <AdrianHB> manu: have concern about the amount of participation
14:35:32 <AdrianHB> ... might be an overdose of payments
14:35:50 <AdrianHB> ... will we have IG and WG meetings at every TPAC for the next few years
14:36:01 <AdrianHB> ... should we only have the WG meet after this year?
14:36:17 <AdrianHB> ... we may be a burnt out by the end of the week
14:36:44 <AdrianHB> ian: if we have good agenda we will be "tired but energised" otherwise it won't feel worthwhile
14:36:55 <AdrianHB> ... we need to go in with clear goals
14:37:16 <AdrianHB> ... there is a lot we need to work thoguh on this occasion
14:37:29 <AdrianHB> ... and the location is an opportunity to bring in new participants
14:37:46 <AdrianHB> ... don't want to make a balnket statement let's deal with on a case by case
14:38:06 <AdrianHB> ... we need to do stuff in prep to ensure we get to the f2f with work to do
14:38:12 <manu> q+ to ask about demos and input to WG
14:38:24 <manu> ack manu
14:38:24 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about demos and input to WG
14:38:33 <AdrianHB> ... need to think about what's important and who will do the work (writing proposals)
14:39:10 <Ian> q+
14:39:11 <AdrianHB> manu: there is a body of work that exists outside the IG which we have been talking about abstractly to date. Would some demos help us solidify our ideas?
14:39:34 <AdrianHB> ... i.e. We show the things we are talking about as a way to start conversations.
14:39:46 <AdrianHB> ... do we do that in the IG and WG or one or the other?
14:40:40 <padler> q+ to think out loud about meeting ideas.
14:40:41 <manu> ack Ian
14:40:55 <AdrianHB> ian: at the june meeting Evan's demo was a great conversation piece and we also say Apple's demo of Apple Pay which helped us feel out our thoughts
14:41:10 <AdrianHB> ... so anything that helps do that is welcome
14:41:36 <AdrianHB> ... just demos will be less important if it's not driving the agenda
14:41:45 <manu> ack padler
14:41:45 <Zakim> padler, you wanted to think out loud about meeting ideas.
14:41:47 <AdrianHB> ... so, if demos support the goals, sounds great
14:42:43 <AdrianHB> pat: wrt june meeting and last TPAC (my read on things), if we can somehow focus the portions of the agenda around specific examples
14:42:55 <AdrianHB> ... use cases beyond the scope of the WG charter
14:43:20 <AdrianHB> ... i saw a lot of indecision around use cases that were not imprtant to everyone
14:43:40 <AdrianHB> ... perhaps industry focused agenda sessions would help
14:43:59 <AdrianHB> ... eg: b2b vs c2b vs g2b etc
14:44:32 <dsr> dsr has joined #wpay
14:44:50 <AdrianHB> manu: industry focused in the same room or separate rooms
14:44:54 <AdrianHB> ...?
14:45:28 <AdrianHB> pat: perhaps we just need to identify which perspective we are taking at particular time, perhaps different tracks
14:46:11 <manu> q+ to +1 industry specific discussions in same room.
14:46:13 <AdrianHB> padler: need to think about how to focus sections of the agenda for specific groups of memebers in the IG
14:46:45 <AdrianHB> padler: we need to deliniate between IG and WG (IG needs to have wide scope)
14:47:03 <Ian> q+
14:47:04 <manu> ack manu
14:47:04 <AdrianHB> ... IG needs to focus on the new WGs we will be forming etc
14:47:05 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to +1 industry specific discussions in same room.
14:47:12 <AdrianHB> manu: +1 to padler
14:47:53 <AdrianHB> ... helpful to have industry specific sections of the agenda (eg: retail perspective for an hour talking about digital receipts)
14:48:12 <AdrianHB> ... it frames the discussion and keeps the discussion focused
14:48:25 <AdrianHB> ... another session on identity and banking
14:48:50 <AdrianHB> ... in that session we'd specifically not talk about KYC for MNOs etc
14:49:04 <AdrianHB> padler: yes, thats what I'm looking for
14:49:31 <manu> q+ to say that having the discussion in the same room is important.
14:49:40 <AdrianHB> ... in june the conversation was a bit tangled because of the diversity of people in the conversations
14:50:00 <manu> ack Ian
14:50:21 <AdrianHB> ian: yes, scopes should not overlap (IG vs WG)
14:50:55 <AdrianHB> ... as far as strcuturing the rest of the agenda, not sure sepeartion along stakeholder lines is right but open to proposals
14:50:59 <padler> maybe base it on "scenarios"
14:51:09 <manu> ack manu
14:51:09 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to say that having the discussion in the same room is important.
14:51:22 <AdrianHB> ... our job this month is to figure out the best way to do the IG f2f
14:52:04 <padler> -1 to break out groups in the way that we did them in June..
14:52:24 <AdrianHB> manu: we should stay in the same room
14:52:35 <padler> +1 to staying in same room..
14:52:58 <AdrianHB> ... it results in some common understanding
14:53:04 <AdrianHB> +1 to staying together
14:53:46 <AdrianHB> padler: industry vertical is perhaps not the right way to do it, I like the idea of scenarios/settings eg: retail
14:53:59 <AdrianHB> ... helps to identify out of context comments and defer those
14:54:15 <AdrianHB> manu: let's move on
14:54:16 <manu> Topic: WPIG -> WPWG Knowledge Transfer
14:54:29 <AdrianHB> zakim, take up agenum 4
14:54:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up agenum 4', AdrianHB
14:54:54 <shepazu> present+ Doug
14:55:02 <AdrianHB> manu: there is another set of docs we need to point the WG at which is those in the WPCG
14:55:20 <AdrianHB> ... q1: are we planning on mentioning those?
14:55:35 <AdrianHB> ... q2: how will we do that if we don't discuss them in the IG first?
14:56:01 <AdrianHB> ian: in the IG context, what is the right time to cover the work of the CG?
14:56:21 <AdrianHB> ... has it worked on APIs that look like the APIs the WG is going to work on
14:56:24 <AdrianHB> manu: yes
14:56:48 <AdrianHB> ian: then we should have a session in the WG meeting to hand-over work that has been done previously (in the CG or other)
14:56:56 <AdrianHB> q+ to ask who will comiple that?
14:57:05 <AdrianHB> manu: is there work for the IG to do?
14:57:16 <AdrianHB> ian: no, that's now in the WG's scope
14:57:25 <manu> ack AdrianHB
14:57:25 <Zakim> AdrianHB, you wanted to ask who will comiple that?
14:58:02 <manu> AdrianHB: There is a bunch of source material for that WG to consume which the IG hasn't looked at because it has been considered too technical. Isn't it the role of the IG to compile that list?
14:58:21 <manu> Ian: That may be an optimization because of timing...
14:58:43 <manu> Ian: The WG group should launch September 28th, and then develop that list in the WG - it may be impractical to have it formally defined that way.
14:58:55 <AdrianHB> ian: that may be an optimization but it's not a req of the IG. The group will launch pre-TPAC so theoretically it could be done by WG participants pre-TPAC
14:59:27 <AdrianHB> manu: I can take an action to compile this list and engage the CG
15:00:28 <AdrianHB> ian: fine but the framing is important. The charter has no "starting point" defined so this is input but not mandatory for the WG to consider
15:01:10 <AdrianHB> ... it's probabaly useful to share the material in advance but I think the WG needs to establish itself
15:01:11 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/06-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:01:23 <AdrianHB> ... so sharing this stuff should be done in a light touch way
15:02:06 <Ian> manu: I'm ok to meet briefly
15:02:35 <AdrianHB> manu: short admin call tomorrow on capabilities doc
15:03:28 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/06-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:03:45 <manu> Present+ Ian
15:03:55 <manu> Chair: Everyone!
15:04:16 <manu> s/10 seconds//
15:04:25 <manu> s/De Nederlandsche Bank just joined the IG! :)//
15:04:49 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/06-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:04:59 <manu> rrsagent, bye
15:04:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items