IRC log of annotation on 2015-08-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:46:30 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #annotation
- 14:46:30 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-irc
- 14:46:32 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:46:32 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #annotation
- 14:46:34 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2666
- 14:46:34 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 14:46:35 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
- 14:46:35 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 August 2015
- 14:46:50 [azaroth]
- Present+ Rob_Sanderson
- 14:51:47 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #annotation
- 14:52:26 [fjh]
- trackbot, start telecon
- 14:52:28 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:52:30 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2666
- 14:52:30 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 14:52:31 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
- 14:52:31 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 August 2015
- 14:56:53 [shepazu]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
- 14:57:07 [fjh]
- Regrets+ Davis_Salisbury
- 14:57:35 [fjh]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
- 14:57:40 [fjh]
- topic agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
- 14:57:44 [TimCole]
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- 14:58:59 [chrisbirk]
- chrisbirk has joined #annotation
- 14:59:10 [tbdinesh]
- tbdinesh has joined #annotation
- 14:59:15 [RayD]
- RayD has joined #annotation
- 14:59:23 [TimCole]
- Present+ Tim_Cole
- 14:59:30 [Jacob]
- Jacob has joined #annotation
- 14:59:35 [ivan]
- Present+ Ivan_Herman
- 14:59:42 [Kyrce]
- Kyrce has joined #annotation
- 14:59:49 [Jacob]
- Present+ Jacob_Jett
- 14:59:49 [chrisbirk]
- Present+ Chris_Birk
- 15:00:08 [Kyrce]
- Present+ Kyrce_Swenson
- 15:01:08 [shepazu]
- present+ shepazu
- 15:01:09 [RayD]
- present+ Ray_Denenberg
- 15:01:12 [fjh]
- Chair: Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
- 15:01:16 [fjh]
- Present+ Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
- 15:01:35 [fjh]
- Topic: Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements
- 15:01:55 [tbdinesh]
- Present+ TB_Dinesh
- 15:02:06 [PaoloCiccarese]
- PaoloCiccarese has joined #annotation
- 15:03:32 [fjh]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:03:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, fjh, I don't know what conference this is
- 15:03:34 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see PaoloCiccarese, Kyrce, Jacob, RayD, tbdinesh, chrisbirk, TimCole, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, ivan, KevinMarks, shepazu, renoirb, nickstenn, csillag_, dwhly,
- 15:03:34 [Zakim]
- ... ujvari_, tessierashpool_, bigbluehat, rhiaro, stain, trackbot, oshepherd
- 15:05:20 [bigbluehat]
- Present+ Benjamin_Young
- 15:06:18 [fjh]
- ScribeNick: RayD
- 15:06:35 [RayD]
- 26 aug cancelled
- 15:07:01 [fjh]
- RESOLUTION: 26 August meeting cancelled
- 15:07:17 [RayD]
- RESOLUTION: 26 August meeting cancelled
- 15:07:25 [fjh]
- String Matching and Searching draft is now available, http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-charmod-norm-20150721/
- 15:07:43 [shepazu]
- q+
- 15:07:49 [RayD]
- Ivan.string matching. doug looked at it
- 15:07:57 [fjh]
- Note that RangeFinder is joint deliverable with WebApps so we should plan of CfC for FPWD in both groups as well as heads up re timing
- 15:07:58 [fjh]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0210.html
- 15:08:22 [fjh]
- Topic: Minutes Approval
- 15:08:27 [fjh]
- q?
- 15:08:36 [fjh]
- ack shepazu
- 15:09:19 [RayD]
- doug: think we should do a cfc, need to fix algorithms
- 15:09:43 [takeshi]
- takeshi has joined #annotation
- 15:10:09 [RayD]
- doug: case-sensitive matching recommended. described how to do unicode casesensitivity
- 15:10:18 [PaoloCiccarese]
- Present+ Paolo_Ciccarese
- 15:10:33 [fjh]
- proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 22 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/22-annotation-minutes.html
- 15:10:53 [fjh]
- Topic: TPAC
- 15:10:55 [takeshi]
- Present+ Takeshi_Kanai
- 15:10:58 [RayD]
- RESOLUTION: Minutes from 22 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/22-annotation-minutes.html
- 15:11:05 [RayD]
- TPAC
- 15:11:10 [_Janina]
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- 15:11:12 [fjh]
- reopen questionnaire? https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73180/annotation-tpac_2015/results
- 15:11:23 [bigbluehat]
- +1
- 15:11:32 [RayD]
- there was a questionaire, not many responses, should we reopen?
- 15:12:01 [Kyrce]
- *shepazu, fjh no worries. But thanks, it is true that I get a lot of creative pronunciations!
- 15:12:47 [RayD]
- re-open it, need to decide if there will be a meeting
- 15:12:57 [RayD]
- (I won't be going)
- 15:13:16 [RayD]
- Rob: september at the latest.
- 15:14:20 [RayD]
- ivan: warning, airfares are increasing don't wait till last minute
- 15:14:23 [shepazu]
- now open until 12 September
- 15:14:38 [RayD]
- rob: what number of people do we need?
- 15:14:48 [fjh]
- All, please complete questionaire
- 15:14:52 [RayD]
- Ivan: more important, will we have the people we need
- 15:15:09 [fjh]
- please note that this is NOT registration for TPAC, you need to register for TPAC separately
- 15:15:09 [RayD]
- doug no point in a meeting without at least 3 implementers
- 15:15:14 [RayD]
- rob's going
- 15:15:25 [RayD]
- paolo not going
- 15:16:05 [fjh]
- http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/
- 15:16:14 [RayD]
- Don't know if Nick's going
- 15:16:14 [RayD]
- doug: could be having a "testing" meeting
- 15:16:32 [RayD]
- ivan: what about social web guys?
- 15:16:42 [RayD]
- ... cross pollination
- 15:17:30 [RayD]
- fjh: is the deadline passed?
- 15:17:43 [RayD]
- ivan: think we said we'd have a meeting
- 15:18:03 [RayD]
- doug: they don't take kindly to cancellations
- 15:18:17 [bigbluehat]
- fjh: yep. I'll be there. buying tickets this week (hopefully)
- 15:18:21 [azaroth]
- Regrets+ Ben_DeMeester
- 15:19:01 [RayD]
- fjh: think it will be productive, given the people who already said they'll be there
- 15:19:12 [bigbluehat]
- +1 for having dial-in
- 15:19:15 [RayD]
- ... does dial in make sense?
- 15:19:22 [RayD]
- rob: probably
- 15:19:23 [shepazu]
- q+
- 15:19:35 [fjh]
- ack shepazu
- 15:20:19 [RayD]
- doug: skype or IRC or webex makes more sense than dialin
- 15:20:24 [takeshi]
- q+
- 15:20:33 [fjh]
- ack takeshi
- 15:21:11 [bigbluehat]
- the Q1 questionnaire is linked above
- 15:21:22 [RayD]
- question about dates
- 15:21:26 [bigbluehat]
- what's the URL of the correct one?
- 15:21:57 [fjh]
- I will send out email reminder
- 15:22:12 [bigbluehat]
- got it. tnx
- 15:22:14 [RayD]
- Topic: model
- 15:22:20 [fjh]
- Topic: Data Model
- 15:22:34 [fjh]
- Hypthes.is and JSON - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0194.html
- 15:23:07 [RayD]
- benjamin annotator doesn't think open wordly, doesn't store enough
- 15:23:17 [RayD]
- .... hypothesis does better
- 15:23:36 [RayD]
- .... don't know where to put XPointer, maybe as a fragment id
- 15:23:36 [fjh]
- s/benjamin/bigbluehat:/
- 15:24:15 [RayD]
- ... be good if could get examples, scenarios, maybe an annotation primer
- 15:24:44 [TimCole]
- q+
- 15:25:13 [RayD]
- rob: model documents should defend why a particular feature is there
- 15:25:29 [fjh]
- ack TimCole
- 15:25:43 [fjh]
- Thanks takeshi for noting the needed correction to the questionnaire
- 15:25:53 [bigbluehat]
- +1
- 15:26:12 [bigbluehat]
- s/+1/+1 to getting the JSON-LD context doc at a URL soon
- 15:26:21 [azaroth]
- +1 to both :)
- 15:26:27 [RayD]
- tim (Not hearing tim clearly)
- 15:26:47 [fjh]
- s/tim.*/tim: need context doc soon
- 15:27:24 [RayD]
- benjamin: thought experience, native json, like if wordpress started using json
- 15:27:35 [fjh]
- s/experience/experiment/
- 15:27:49 [fjh]
- s/benjamin/bigbluehat/
- 15:27:59 [RayD]
- ...... got valuable stuff but not ready for prime time. plan to reformulate the json
- 15:28:14 [fjh]
- s/....../.../
- 15:28:28 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:28:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
- 15:28:51 [RayD]
- .... would be useful to keep track (on wiki) of the different annotation formats used
- 15:29:32 [Jacob]
- maybe put the context document on next week's agenda?
- 15:29:33 [fjh]
- s/tim (Not hearing tim clearly)/tim: need context doc soon/
- 15:29:38 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:29:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
- 15:29:51 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:29:56 [azaroth]
- ack ivan
- 15:29:57 [RayD]
- topic: context document for json-ld
- 15:29:59 [fjh]
- TOPIC: Where context document is for JSON LD serializations
- 15:30:09 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:30:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
- 15:30:16 [ivan]
- www.w3.org/ns/anno.json
- 15:30:36 [RayD]
- ivan; practice is to put it on w3c namespace
- 15:30:52 [fjh]
- s/TOPIC: Where context document is for JSON LD serializations//
- 15:31:06 [RayD]
- tim: if it changes is that a problem?
- 15:31:10 [RayD]
- ivan: no
- 15:31:51 [RayD]
- tim: useful if it was there, for work on validation
- 15:32:31 [TimCole]
- no, I don't expect to be at TPAC...
- 15:33:14 [RayD]
- rob: should it have all the protococ related matters?
- 15:33:14 [RayD]
- ivan: our choice
- 15:33:14 [RayD]
- .... does it have to include the ontology?
- 15:33:40 [RayD]
- rob: will do a preliminary draft today
- 15:33:57 [ivan]
- anno.jsonld
- 15:34:15 [azaroth]
- http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld (yes?)
- 15:34:43 [azaroth]
- URI/L
- 15:35:03 [azaroth]
- s@URI/L@@
- 15:36:14 [RayD]
- TOPIC: multiple bodies
- 15:37:03 [RayD]
- rob: another proposal.
- 15:37:07 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:37:15 [azaroth]
- ack ivan
- 15:37:28 [RayD]
- ... interested in the process by which we come to a decision
- 15:38:05 [fjh]
- q+
- 15:38:11 [RayD]
- ivan: if you don't want to do anything with roles you can ignore it. Makes it more attractive.
- 15:38:28 [PaoloCiccarese]
- q+
- 15:38:35 [TimCole]
- q+
- 15:38:40 [azaroth]
- ack fjh
- 15:38:41 [shepazu]
- agenda+ TPAC
- 15:38:51 [RayD]
- q+
- 15:39:01 [azaroth]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0036.html
- 15:39:14 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:39:18 [azaroth]
- ack PaoloCiccarese
- 15:39:30 [RayD]
- paolo; like proposal
- 15:39:41 [azaroth]
- +1 to not requiring reference to annotation
- 15:39:46 [RayD]
- don't need reference to annotation
- 15:40:06 [Jacob]
- +1 and +1 for employing Ray's solution
- 15:40:18 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:40:22 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:40:26 [RayD]
- .... ugly in json
- 15:40:39 [azaroth]
- q+ to note framing complication
- 15:41:36 [ivan]
- q-
- 15:41:36 [azaroth]
- ack TimCole
- 15:41:45 [RayD]
- ... approach requires some interpretation, but it's local, and you can ignore it
- 15:41:51 [bigbluehat]
- PaoloCiccarese: (or anyone) do we have an example of the "stitched up" JSON? :)
- 15:42:07 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:42:23 [RayD]
- tim: like proposal. concerned that those on list but not on call will see this as unnecessary indirection
- 15:42:59 [RayD]
- .... need concrete examples.
- 15:43:01 [Jacob]
- Is it possible to discuss the pros and cons of Ray's approach compared to the use of hasScope that Lutz's annosys example uses? IIRC, it was another possible solution.
- 15:43:26 [Jacob]
- +1 for a wiki page cataloging the pros / cons of each approach
- 15:43:31 [bigbluehat]
- +1 to the wiki page
- 15:43:39 [tbdinesh]
- +1 for the wiki page
- 15:43:41 [bigbluehat]
- hard to know clearly what we're discussing without something to look at :)
- 15:43:41 [Kyrce]
- +1 to the wiki page
- 15:43:42 [PaoloCiccarese]
- +1
- 15:44:04 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:44:06 [azaroth]
- ack RayD
- 15:44:26 [RayD]
- .... tim will put up a page for this
- 15:45:04 [shepazu]
- q+
- 15:45:17 [PaoloCiccarese]
- q+
- 15:45:29 [azaroth]
- ack azaroth
- 15:45:29 [Zakim]
- azaroth, you wanted to note framing complication
- 15:48:21 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:48:22 [azaroth]
- ack ivan
- 15:48:25 [RayD]
- rob need to be careful not to embed body into role assignment
- 15:49:02 [RayD]
- ivan before we do that wiki page (to compare things) need to be sure we have at least one
- 15:49:09 [azaroth]
- +1 to Ivan
- 15:49:27 [RayD]
- .... example that has all the predicates correct, and both json and turtle
- 15:49:38 [Jacob]
- +1
- 15:49:39 [bigbluehat]
- +1
- 15:49:53 [RayD]
- ..... example in turtle can become complicated in json-ld
- 15:50:44 [azaroth]
- My explanation of why we don't need the link to the annotation: The introduction of the resource solves the open world issue. It can be used by multiple annotations that have the same resource with the same role.
- 15:50:45 [RayD]
- doug -- not clear on all this and that's why want a wiki page, to help understand
- 15:50:48 [fjh]
- +1 to doug, we need clarification here.
- 15:51:00 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:51:03 [azaroth]
- ack shepazu
- 15:51:05 [azaroth]
- ack PaoloCiccarese
- 15:51:49 [RayD]
- paolo - not sure a wiki page is going to help explain.
- 15:52:14 [bigbluehat]
- q+
- 15:52:20 [RayD]
- ivan start with a clear proposal, with the predicates etc.
- 15:52:30 [azaroth]
- q+ to ask if role == motivation
- 15:53:14 [azaroth]
- +1 to PaoloCiccarese
- 15:53:42 [RayD]
- paolo - constraints from being based on sematic web concept. Not everyone cares about semantic web
- 15:53:43 [bigbluehat]
- +1
- 15:53:47 [bigbluehat]
- q-
- 15:53:52 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:53:55 [RayD]
- .... and we need to explain why we care?
- 15:54:06 [azaroth]
- ack azaroth
- 15:54:06 [Zakim]
- azaroth, you wanted to ask if role == motivation
- 15:54:15 [Jacob]
- +1 to Paolo
- 15:54:53 [TimCole]
- q+
- 15:54:55 [RayD]
- rob is the role a motivation, or not. propose that it is.
- 15:55:01 [azaroth]
- ack TimCole
- 15:55:07 [PaoloCiccarese]
- q+
- 15:56:00 [fjh]
- q?
- 15:56:15 [RayD]
- tim concern about motivatedBy with multiple targets, can't do it
- 15:56:39 [fjh]
- s/tim concern/TimCole: concern/
- 15:56:50 [RayD]
- .... what's appropriate for body might not be appropriate for target
- 15:57:13 [fjh]
- s/rob is/azaroth: is/
- 15:57:20 [Jacob]
- basically a role is a sub-class of motivation
- 15:57:22 [azaroth]
- ack PaoloCiccarese
- 15:57:28 [RayD]
- rob ok with multiple predicates, but nervous about not using Motivation class.
- 15:57:47 [RayD]
- paolo different functions. but ok with range the same
- 15:58:20 [fjh]
- Topic: Other Business
- 15:58:21 [fjh]
- All, please note questionnaire is corrected, so please take a look and answer it https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73180/annotation-tpac_2015/
- 15:58:21 [azaroth]
- q?
- 15:58:34 [RayD]
- ... might be confusing to some but has to be clear that range is the same
- 15:58:46 [fjh]
- no call 26 Aug, reminder
- 15:59:34 [azaroth]
- Proposed action on the group was to use a new predicate for the relationship between assignment resource and the role, but to use the Motivation class as the range to avoid duplicating all of the instances
- 15:59:40 [RayD]
- doug - maybe better if people answered the tpac poll
- 16:00:02 [azaroth]
- And as per Ivan to create examples in both Turtle and JSON-LD to see how it looks
- 16:00:05 [fjh]
- Topic: Adjourn
- 16:00:47 [ivan]
- trackbot, end telcon
- 16:00:47 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:00:47 [Zakim]
- sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
- 16:00:55 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:00:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:00:56 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:00:56 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items