14:46:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #annotation
14:46:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-irc
14:46:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:46:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #annotation
14:46:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2666
14:46:34 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:46:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
14:46:35 <trackbot> Date: 05 August 2015
14:46:50 <azaroth> Present+ Rob_Sanderson
14:51:47 <fjh> fjh has joined #annotation
14:52:26 <fjh> trackbot, start telecon
14:52:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:52:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2666
14:52:30 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:52:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
14:52:31 <trackbot> Date: 05 August 2015
14:56:53 <shepazu> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
14:57:07 <fjh> Regrets+ Davis_Salisbury
14:57:35 <fjh> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
14:57:40 <fjh> topic agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0012.html
14:57:44 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #annotation
14:58:59 <chrisbirk> chrisbirk has joined #annotation
14:59:10 <tbdinesh> tbdinesh has joined #annotation
14:59:15 <RayD> RayD has joined #annotation
14:59:23 <TimCole> Present+ Tim_Cole
14:59:30 <Jacob> Jacob has joined #annotation
14:59:35 <ivan> Present+ Ivan_Herman
14:59:42 <Kyrce> Kyrce has joined #annotation
14:59:49 <Jacob> Present+ Jacob_Jett
14:59:49 <chrisbirk> Present+ Chris_Birk
15:00:08 <Kyrce> Present+ Kyrce_Swenson
15:01:08 <shepazu> present+ shepazu
15:01:09 <RayD> present+ Ray_Denenberg
15:01:12 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
15:01:16 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
15:01:35 <fjh> Topic: Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements
15:01:55 <tbdinesh> Present+ TB_Dinesh
15:02:06 <PaoloCiccarese> PaoloCiccarese has joined #annotation
15:03:32 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:03:32 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I don't know what conference this is
15:03:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaoloCiccarese, Kyrce, Jacob, RayD, tbdinesh, chrisbirk, TimCole, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, ivan, KevinMarks, shepazu, renoirb, nickstenn, csillag_, dwhly,
15:03:34 <Zakim> ... ujvari_, tessierashpool_, bigbluehat, rhiaro, stain, trackbot, oshepherd
15:05:20 <bigbluehat> Present+ Benjamin_Young
15:06:18 <fjh> ScribeNick: RayD
15:06:35 <RayD> 26 aug cancelled
15:07:01 <fjh> RESOLUTION: 26 August meeting cancelled
15:07:17 <RayD> RESOLUTION: 26 August meeting cancelled
15:07:25 <fjh> String Matching and Searching draft is now available, http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-charmod-norm-20150721/
15:07:43 <shepazu> q+
15:07:49 <RayD> Ivan.string matching. doug looked at it
15:07:57 <fjh> Note that RangeFinder is joint deliverable with WebApps so we should plan of CfC for FPWD in both groups as well as heads up re timing
15:07:58 <fjh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0210.html
15:08:22 <fjh> Topic: Minutes Approval
15:08:27 <fjh> q?
15:08:36 <fjh> ack shepazu
15:09:19 <RayD> doug: think we should do a cfc, need to fix algorithms
15:09:43 <takeshi> takeshi has joined #annotation
15:10:09 <RayD> doug: case-sensitive matching recommended. described how to do unicode casesensitivity
15:10:18 <PaoloCiccarese> Present+ Paolo_Ciccarese
15:10:33 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 22 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/22-annotation-minutes.html
15:10:53 <fjh> Topic: TPAC
15:10:55 <takeshi> Present+ Takeshi_Kanai
15:10:58 <RayD> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 22 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/22-annotation-minutes.html
15:11:05 <RayD> TPAC
15:11:10 <_Janina> _Janina has joined #annotation
15:11:12 <fjh> reopen questionnaire? https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73180/annotation-tpac_2015/results
15:11:23 <bigbluehat> +1
15:11:32 <RayD> there was a questionaire, not many responses, should we reopen?
15:12:01 <Kyrce> *shepazu, fjh no worries. But thanks, it is true that I get a lot of creative pronunciations!
15:12:47 <RayD> re-open it, need to decide if there will be a meeting
15:12:57 <RayD> (I won't be going)
15:13:16 <RayD> Rob: september at the latest.
15:14:20 <RayD> ivan: warning, airfares are increasing don't wait till last minute
15:14:23 <shepazu> now open until 12 September
15:14:38 <RayD> rob: what number of people do we need?
15:14:48 <fjh> All, please complete questionaire
15:14:52 <RayD> Ivan: more important, will we have the people we need
15:15:09 <fjh> please note that this is NOT registration for TPAC, you need to register for TPAC separately
15:15:09 <RayD> doug no point in a meeting without at least 3 implementers
15:15:14 <RayD> rob's going
15:15:25 <RayD> paolo not going
15:16:05 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/
15:16:14 <RayD> Don't know if Nick's going
15:16:14 <RayD> doug: could be having a "testing" meeting
15:16:32 <RayD> ivan: what about social web guys?
15:16:42 <RayD> ... cross pollination
15:17:30 <RayD> fjh: is the deadline passed?
15:17:43 <RayD> ivan: think we said we'd have a meeting
15:18:03 <RayD> doug: they don't take kindly to cancellations
15:18:17 <bigbluehat> fjh: yep. I'll be there. buying tickets this week (hopefully)
15:18:21 <azaroth> Regrets+ Ben_DeMeester
15:19:01 <RayD> fjh: think it will be productive, given the people who already said they'll be there
15:19:12 <bigbluehat> +1 for having dial-in
15:19:15 <RayD> ... does dial in make sense?
15:19:22 <RayD> rob: probably
15:19:23 <shepazu> q+
15:19:35 <fjh> ack shepazu
15:20:19 <RayD> doug: skype or IRC or webex makes more sense than dialin
15:20:24 <takeshi> q+
15:20:33 <fjh> ack takeshi
15:21:11 <bigbluehat> the Q1 questionnaire is linked above
15:21:22 <RayD> question about dates
15:21:26 <bigbluehat> what's the URL of the correct one?
15:21:57 <fjh> I will send out email reminder
15:22:12 <bigbluehat> got it. tnx
15:22:14 <RayD> Topic: model
15:22:20 <fjh> Topic: Data Model
15:22:34 <fjh> Hypthes.is and JSON - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0194.html
15:23:07 <RayD> benjamin  annotator doesn't think open  wordly, doesn't store enough
15:23:17 <RayD> .... hypothesis does better
15:23:36 <RayD> .... don't know where to put XPointer, maybe as a fragment id
15:23:36 <fjh> s/benjamin/bigbluehat:/
15:24:15 <RayD> ... be good if could get examples, scenarios, maybe an annotation primer
15:24:44 <TimCole> q+
15:25:13 <RayD> rob: model documents should defend why a particular feature is there
15:25:29 <fjh> ack TimCole
15:25:43 <fjh> Thanks takeshi for noting the needed correction to the questionnaire
15:25:53 <bigbluehat> +1
15:26:12 <bigbluehat> s/+1/+1 to getting the JSON-LD context doc at a URL soon
15:26:21 <azaroth> +1 to both :)
15:26:27 <RayD> tim   (Not hearing tim clearly)
15:26:47 <fjh> s/tim.*/tim: need context doc soon
15:27:24 <RayD> benjamin:  thought experience, native json, like if wordpress started using json
15:27:35 <fjh> s/experience/experiment/
15:27:49 <fjh> s/benjamin/bigbluehat/
15:27:59 <RayD> ......  got valuable stuff but not ready for prime time.  plan to reformulate the json
15:28:14 <fjh> s/....../.../
15:28:28 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:28:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
15:28:51 <RayD> .... would be useful to keep track (on wiki) of the different annotation formats used
15:29:32 <Jacob> maybe put the context document on next week's agenda?
15:29:33 <fjh> s/tim  (Not hearing tim clearly)/tim: need context doc soon/
15:29:38 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:29:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
15:29:51 <ivan> q+
15:29:56 <azaroth> ack ivan
15:29:57 <RayD> topic: context document for json-ld
15:29:59 <fjh> TOPIC: Where context document is for JSON LD serializations
15:30:09 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:30:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html fjh
15:30:16 <ivan> www.w3.org/ns/anno.json
15:30:36 <RayD> ivan; practice is to put it on w3c namespace
15:30:52 <fjh> s/TOPIC: Where context document is for JSON LD serializations//
15:31:06 <RayD> tim: if it changes is that a problem?
15:31:10 <RayD> ivan: no
15:31:51 <RayD> tim: useful if it was there, for work on validation
15:32:31 <TimCole> no, I don't expect to be at TPAC...
15:33:14 <RayD> rob: should it have all the protococ related matters?
15:33:14 <RayD> ivan: our choice
15:33:14 <RayD> .... does it have to include the ontology?
15:33:40 <RayD> rob: will do a preliminary draft today
15:33:57 <ivan> anno.jsonld
15:34:15 <azaroth> http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld (yes?)
15:34:43 <azaroth> URI/L
15:35:03 <azaroth> s@URI/L@@
15:36:14 <RayD> TOPIC: multiple bodies
15:37:03 <RayD> rob: another proposal.
15:37:07 <ivan> q+
15:37:15 <azaroth> ack ivan
15:37:28 <RayD> ... interested in the process by which we come to a decision
15:38:05 <fjh> q+
15:38:11 <RayD> ivan: if you don't want to do anything with roles you can ignore it. Makes it more attractive.
15:38:28 <PaoloCiccarese> q+
15:38:35 <TimCole> q+
15:38:40 <azaroth> ack fjh
15:38:41 <shepazu> agenda+ TPAC
15:38:51 <RayD> q+
15:39:01 <azaroth> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Aug/0036.html
15:39:14 <azaroth> q?
15:39:18 <azaroth> ack PaoloCiccarese
15:39:30 <RayD> paolo; like proposal
15:39:41 <azaroth> +1 to not requiring reference to annotation
15:39:46 <RayD> don't need reference to annotation
15:40:06 <Jacob> +1 and +1 for employing Ray's solution
15:40:18 <azaroth> q?
15:40:22 <ivan> q+
15:40:26 <RayD> .... ugly in json
15:40:39 <azaroth> q+ to note framing complication
15:41:36 <ivan> q-
15:41:36 <azaroth> ack TimCole
15:41:45 <RayD> ...  approach requires some interpretation, but it's local, and you can ignore it
15:41:51 <bigbluehat> PaoloCiccarese: (or anyone) do we have an example of the "stitched up" JSON? :)
15:42:07 <ivan> q+
15:42:23 <RayD> tim: like proposal. concerned that those on list but not on call will see this as unnecessary indirection
15:42:59 <RayD> .... need concrete examples.
15:43:01 <Jacob> Is it possible to discuss the pros and cons of Ray's approach compared to the use of hasScope that Lutz's annosys example uses? IIRC, it was another possible solution.
15:43:26 <Jacob> +1 for a wiki page cataloging the pros / cons of each approach
15:43:31 <bigbluehat> +1 to the wiki page
15:43:39 <tbdinesh> +1 for the wiki page
15:43:41 <bigbluehat> hard to know clearly what we're discussing without something to look at :)
15:43:41 <Kyrce> +1 to the wiki page
15:43:42 <PaoloCiccarese> +1
15:44:04 <azaroth> q?
15:44:06 <azaroth> ack RayD
15:44:26 <RayD> .... tim will put up a page for this
15:45:04 <shepazu> q+
15:45:17 <PaoloCiccarese> q+
15:45:29 <azaroth> ack azaroth
15:45:29 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to note framing complication
15:48:21 <azaroth> q?
15:48:22 <azaroth> ack ivan
15:48:25 <RayD> rob  need to be careful not to embed body into role assignment
15:49:02 <RayD> ivan   before we do that wiki page (to compare things) need to be sure we have at least one
15:49:09 <azaroth> +1 to Ivan
15:49:27 <RayD> .... example that has all the predicates correct, and both json and turtle
15:49:38 <Jacob> +1
15:49:39 <bigbluehat> +1
15:49:53 <RayD> ..... example in turtle can become complicated in json-ld
15:50:44 <azaroth> My explanation of why we don't need the link to the annotation:  The introduction of the resource solves the open world issue. It can be used by multiple annotations that have the same resource with the same role.
15:50:45 <RayD> doug   -- not clear on all this and that's why want a wiki page, to help understand
15:50:48 <fjh> +1 to doug, we need clarification here.
15:51:00 <azaroth> q?
15:51:03 <azaroth> ack shepazu
15:51:05 <azaroth> ack PaoloCiccarese
15:51:49 <RayD> paolo - not sure a wiki page is going to help explain.
15:52:14 <bigbluehat> q+
15:52:20 <RayD> ivan start with a clear proposal, with the predicates etc.
15:52:30 <azaroth> q+ to ask if role == motivation
15:53:14 <azaroth> +1 to PaoloCiccarese
15:53:42 <RayD> paolo - constraints from being based on sematic web concept.  Not everyone cares about semantic web
15:53:43 <bigbluehat> +1
15:53:47 <bigbluehat> q-
15:53:52 <azaroth> q?
15:53:55 <RayD> .... and we need to explain why we care?
15:54:06 <azaroth> ack azaroth
15:54:06 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask if role == motivation
15:54:15 <Jacob> +1 to Paolo
15:54:53 <TimCole> q+
15:54:55 <RayD> rob  is the role a motivation, or not. propose that it is.
15:55:01 <azaroth> ack TimCole
15:55:07 <PaoloCiccarese> q+
15:56:00 <fjh> q?
15:56:15 <RayD> tim   concern about motivatedBy   with multiple targets, can't do it
15:56:39 <fjh> s/tim concern/TimCole: concern/
15:56:50 <RayD> .... what's appropriate for body might not be appropriate for target
15:57:13 <fjh> s/rob is/azaroth: is/
15:57:20 <Jacob> basically a role is a sub-class of motivation
15:57:22 <azaroth> ack PaoloCiccarese
15:57:28 <RayD> rob ok with multiple predicates, but nervous about not using Motivation class.
15:57:47 <RayD> paolo   different functions.   but ok with range the same
15:58:20 <fjh> Topic: Other Business
15:58:21 <fjh> All, please note questionnaire is corrected, so please take a look and answer it https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73180/annotation-tpac_2015/
15:58:21 <azaroth> q?
15:58:34 <RayD> ... might be confusing to some but has to be clear that range is the same
15:58:46 <fjh> no call 26 Aug, reminder
15:59:34 <azaroth> Proposed action on the group was to use a new predicate for the relationship between assignment resource and the role, but to use the Motivation class as the range to avoid duplicating all of the instances
15:59:40 <RayD> doug - maybe better if people answered the tpac poll
16:00:02 <azaroth> And as per Ivan to create examples in both Turtle and JSON-LD to see how it looks
16:00:05 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
16:00:47 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:00:47 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:00:47 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:00:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/05-annotation-minutes.html trackbot
16:00:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:00:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items